May 31, 2021

1801: Elizabeth Fales and Jason Fairbanks

1801: Elizabeth Fales and Jason Fairbanks

A man staggers toward you holding a knife, covered in blood, and tells you someone is dead. Would you think he did it? On this episode, the ONUC gals discuss the 'happy' couple Elizabeth Fales and Jason Fairbanks. Were they actually a couple or was a man obsessed over a woman he couldn't 'get'? This week the gals discuss the case, have a lengthy conversation about mental health, and picnicking at public hangings.

Trigger Warning Level: Low

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Sources: The New England Historical Society, The Associated Press, and Murderpedia 

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Transcript

You are listening to one nation under crime, a chronological true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case from each year, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah. And this week we're going to be talking about Elizabeth fails and Jason Fairbank's, this is one of those cases that it's, it's a good, eh, well, it, it has an ending as, as most things do, but you'll see that sometimes with these cases, there's there, there isn't always an ending. And so, well, there is an ending, but the ending is, and we don't know what weird things just happen. 

0  

00:00:44

This is what I mean. Exactly. So let's get into it. I'm going to go ahead and we'll name off the sources. I know last week I kind of named them as I went through, but I didn't name him like all in bulk at the top. And I just want to make sure we get those on there. Just want people to know I'm not making it up. I'm making it all up. So the, I used Wikipedia. Of course, God bless Wikipedia. And if you have some extra money that you don't want to donate to us, go give them money. Do you know how much like free information they give out? And they don't make any money? Like seriously go, just do it. 

0  

00:01:25

They have it on their page anyways. So Wikipedia the new England historical society, the associated press and my new favorite website. Murderpedia right up your alley. I was telling Leah the other day, cause like we talked about it in our intro episode, but I have NSA agent, Brad, Brad, who like really needs to chill. Like he's just, I feel as though Brad is just like editing and all the time, like I feel like Brad was in a fraternity and he ended up working for the NSA because he knew someone under Spalding gave you his, gave him your name, cut out. 

0  

00:02:08

I didn't, you know, I don't know. I don't know how, I don't know how my information, well everybody's information is out there. Right? Sure. But you know what I mean? Some of your searches I'm sure. Raise some red flags. I now have saved to my bookmark Murderpedia of course. And then us executions. I mean, let's watch this chick. Yeah. They're like, oh us executions. Murderpedia oh, capital one. That's good. And how many times did you say, Hey, Siri, I need to hide a body. 

0  

00:02:48

Like I wonder how many times as we get Siri, I have Siri turned off, so Siri's not listening into my conversations now. NSA agent, Brad might be, but Siri, Siri's not serious. Not in my business. I don't know her like that. I never like that 

1  

00:03:05

Word. You don't 

0  

00:03:06

Know me. I might be on a first name basis with her. Doesn't mean she is with me saying, so like I said, this case is going to be about Elizabeth fails and Jason Fairbank's. We are in 1801 this week. So in 1801, it was February 17th that the us house of representatives breaks electoral college tie by electing Thomas Jefferson as president over Aaron Burr, shocking. 

1  

00:03:39

He thought he had it in the bag. He really 

0  

00:03:42

Did. 

1  

00:03:43

But then he thought he'd get to be vice president. 

0  

00:03:46

And if you see Hamilton, thank him for the endorsement. To me, Thomas Jefferson is just Davi, dicks. Like that's all it is. And I honestly like it. I like it and I don't hate it. And what else I found super funny about just another rabbit trail. What I find super funny about Hamilton is how many, like kids, like my daughter loves Hamilton. How many do you think we're going to watch this? And they're going to get to history class and they're going to be like that 

1  

00:04:19

Guy with the wig. It was this 

0  

00:04:20

White guy. Finally king George was white. Weird. I mean, I just, I think about that sometimes. Like how many little kids are out there that are like, that's, that's the guy that's Hamilton. Oh, this isn't Hispanic. 

1  

00:04:39

Another, another little rabbit trail that I thought was hilarious. One of my friends, they went through Laurel, Mississippi, which is where my hometown or hometown is. Yes. And, and I love them Aaron and what's what's it been? Yes, they are so great. 

0  

00:04:58

Yes. They don't tear down every wall and paint at one. 

1  

00:05:02

Yeah. Yeah. And they're, they're great. I love them. But 

0  

00:05:06

You know that they have to make her stand on a box and she sat there ever, if they ever do like an up close with them, she has to stand on top of something because she would be 

1  

00:05:18

At a fandom. That's hilarious. 

0  

00:05:20

Cutest thing ever. So it's so funny because my sister and her husband, it's true. I, I saw a photo of them together and it was kind of like far off in the distance. And so you could really see like their height difference. And then there was another photo of them like recording and it was an up-close and she was like a foot higher it's south native. 

1  

00:05:39

Okay. Anyway. Sorry. And she has a, he just finished kindergarten, but they were going through and there and she told him we're going through Laurel. He's like, mom, that's not a real place. And she was like, no, this is the place he goes, wait a minute. You mean, hometown is a place. Like it thought it was just like a made up TV show. 

0  

00:06:00

We in here, 

1  

00:06:04

They bring, they, they, she showed a picture of Ben shot and he was like, you been, it's a real place. It's real in that sweet. 

0  

00:06:12

I love that show. Anytime that my daughter, like, if I'm going to turn something on, I always watch HGTV. 

1  

00:06:18

Like, it's just, again, it's not going to have ugly on it. Well, I 

0  

00:06:21

Just, I like renovations. There's something calming about it. I don't know. Probably just the destruction of everything and then bringing it back together. 

1  

00:06:28

And then you get inspiration about a brand new kitchen and you're so excited about it. And then you get a quote on it and it's because everybody is building stuff in Lumber's at such a premium it's twice. The price that you anticipated. I'm not bitter. Not at 

0  

00:06:41

All, not 

1  

00:06:42

At all, not at all. This might be a very current situation. It's still fresh. I get to go to Disney though. So, so that's always positive. I mean, 

0  

00:06:53

So it was March 3rd that the first us Jewish governor David Emmanuelle takes office in Georgia, which I found really surprising for the south. At that time. There aren't 

1  

00:07:03

A lot of Jewish people in the south. 

0  

00:07:05

No, not really at all. I mean, think there's like pot, which you're not being anti-Semitic right. There's certain areas like where we live. We just don't have, we don't have a lot of temples in general. 

1  

00:07:18

There's one big one close to us. And I will say a headmaster that I used to teach at a private school. We had a headmaster. His last name was Zaslofsky. I love that. But we called him Mr. Z, because that's sort of a mouthful, but he was Jewish, but he grew up in New York and he was a transplant. So not very common in the south 

0  

00:07:42

And especially in 1801 that's I just found that really interesting. It is. So November 10th, Kentucky Outlaws dueling, but 

1  

00:07:52

Not New Jersey. 

0  

00:07:55

If everything is legal in New Jersey, November 16th, the first edition of the New York evening post 

1  

00:08:05

Cleanest found it. 

0  

00:08:08

So Dedham, Massachusetts is Southwest of Boston and it became incorporated in 1636. And I I'm, I gotta put it in here. Look, Dedham is not how you spell denim. 

1  

00:08:27

How's it spelled? 

0  

00:08:28

D E D H a M. 

1  

00:08:33

But does it? Yes. I just, 

0  

00:08:36

I have a problem with names of places that aren't spelled, how they sound. It could be deedum. 

1  

00:08:46

Yeah, but I mean like, it makes it maybe like it's the Scottish in me. Cause there's Edinburgh. 

0  

00:08:52

It's true. I just, anyway, some names are just crazy. And so anyways, this is Dedham, Massachusetts, Southwest of good old Boston. And again, it became incorporated in 1636, the, the towns, people originally wanted to name the town, Ken tent. That's very 

1  

00:09:13

Sweet. 

0  

00:09:16

And like, 

1  

00:09:17

I'll live in contentment. 

0  

00:09:18

I don't live in contentment and my per in my life, I live in Mayberry. You do, you do. But you know, like, look, if I live in contentment, it's cause it's a physical place. And so they were overruled very quickly and they were overruled by the Massachusetts general court. I wonder 

1  

00:09:40

Why they were overruled. I mean, I think that's 

0  

00:09:42

To name a town contentment, look, we got some crazy 

1  

00:09:45

Slap out Alabama. We got 

0  

00:09:47

Slap out out. We got a lot, we got op op east 

1  

00:09:55

And I always went over west of <em></em> and in and chanted she's from and a loot and delays you. And there's an ENDOLOOP Alabama. 

0  

00:10:06

We do. We have Andalusia. Yeah. I mean just it's anyways crazy names. So they were overruled and contentment is the town's motto. Now this is a compromise. So the Fairbank's house in Dedham is the oldest surviving timber framed house in the United States. And it's been, yeah, it's been scientifically dated back to 1637. So one year after dead and became an actual town. That's a long, long time ago. And it's still standing new year's day of 16, 54. 

0  

00:10:46

A vote was unanimous to establish the first tax payer funded public school. So I guess we have them to thank for public funding of our school system 

1  

00:11:00

Teachers. I mean, that's really pretty cool. Even it was just like towns that had to pull together or something, you know? 

0  

00:11:07

So they did end schools. They did end up opening a school and they had a headmaster and they paid him 20 pounds a year. So about $5,000. But it's like $1,000, seven. One's 

1  

00:11:31

A nice chunk. 

0  

00:11:33

What? We should probably pay teachers now, at least. 

1  

00:11:36

I mean, depending on how long and who, 

0  

00:11:41

The younger you teach, the more you should get paid some and say, I got a daughter that's just getting out of kindergarten and I, God blossom 

1  

00:11:50

Kindergarten. And I loved it. It's the, it's the middle teachers that I think need a lot of money because all those hormones are crazy. Oh, I'm scared of them. I'd rather go straight to high school. Didn't have to worry with middle-school. 

0  

00:12:04

So the town has been featured in a number of films and TV shows. The most recognizable that I found is the silent Anne of green Gables. And 1919, 

1  

00:12:17

There was such how far back was Anne of green Gables written? Like I didn't realize it was on that old, 

0  

00:12:24

The perfect storm in 2000. My husband's 

1  

00:12:27

A fan of that show, not me or movie, 

0  

00:12:30

Whatever and parts of shutter island with job will not watch, which came out in 2010. We're going to go. We're just, we're going to go, go with us on this journey for a moment. Picture Leonardo. Yeah. Picture it Sicily. I mean, you got Leonardo DiCaprio, first of all, the nations, Jim, arguably, I love Leonardo. There was enough room on the door. We all know it. We've seen 

1  

00:13:05

Your body mass would have made it shake and they would have, 

0  

00:13:08

I said, I will never let go. And she let go 

1  

00:13:13

Too. She didn't let go with her heart though. She said, 

0  

00:13:17

I don't believe she carried him with her. You going to let a man draw you? And then Ooh, look at that body sinks that fast and water. 

1  

00:13:26

I'm sure he probably didn't sink. 

0  

00:13:29

I'm sure. Not either, but 

1  

00:13:31

I mean, if we're being factual and 

0  

00:13:33

Realistic about it, can you imagine being the guy on the Titanic is, was anyone alive? 

1  

00:13:39

That's sad. 

0  

00:13:40

<em></em> reminds me of bring out. It's so funny. But if you, in all seriousness, if you have not seen shutter island, it's on Netflix. I have it saved to my list. It is such a good, it's like a thriller, like a psychological thriller, a psychological thriller, but it's, it's so good. And it's a movie that when you watch it, you get to the end and you see the ending and you're really like, oh, okay, cool. 

0  

00:14:24

How did we get here? Gotta watch that again. I mean, it's just such a good twist cause you never expect it. And guys mark, mark. Refollow I do love. That's really all I need to say. He's manly. He and they have like Boston accents and it's kind of like set in this time of like the fifties and sixties and dress. 

1  

00:14:43

It was my favorite time period, by the way, like the fifties, just like, you know, more recent time periods. I think I would fit in very well in the fifties because I love people dressed for everything. 

0  

00:14:57

Even a flower child. 

1  

00:14:59

Absolutely. But I love the 

0  

00:15:01

Woodstock. I wouldn't have been there 

1  

00:15:03

To meet people, but I loved like, you know, you wear your hat and the gloves and you know, you wore your nice dress and everything. Oh, 

0  

00:15:11

I can totally see that. That's all me. But again, not sponsored by shutter island by any means, but you know, Hey, if they want to say 

1  

00:15:20

They want to throw money 

0  

00:15:21

This way, Hey look, I'll sponsor anybody. So it was May 18th of 18. Oh one that Jason Fairbank's staggered to Elizabeth Betsy fails his home and announced that Betsy Fales was dead. Jason was covered in blood injured and holding a knife. Omar. 

1  

00:15:47

So did he like propel proclaimed this proudly? Or just like, Hey guy, 

0  

00:15:54

He's just like showed up like staggered up. Which first of all, if anybody is staggering up to me covered in blood. Yeah. But you covered in place something, something went down, something happened. I see every day. Yeah. No. And I'm not going to just believe, oh, this, oh, this is normal. It's crazy. So Nehemiah fails. And Sally witting had five children too much. I think. So Sarah, Susanna, Elizabeth, Timothy and Nehemiah. Because of course in that time, all men needed to name a son after themselves because why not? 

0  

00:16:39

Elizabeth? Betsy Fales was the middle child. And she was described the same way every time. Every, every source, every article that I could find about Betsy, they all described her in like just this glowing way. And actually it reminded me of you. Me. 

1  

00:17:00

Yes. She must be delightful. She 

0  

00:17:03

Must be. So everyone said she was . She was engaging. She was modest. And she was unassuming with curly shoulder length, Auburn hair. That's all me and alabaster skin. So this gave me 

1  

00:17:25

Leah 

0  

00:17:26

Or Meredith. This could be Leah and this is, this could be a descendant. It could be you. It could. Yeah. That's true. No, you can't. I don't know. Could be on your dad's side. Who knows? You never know. You never know. So unfortunately this is all the information that I could find about Betsy kind of before her death, any real information about her, she says I'd like to, you know, and unfortunately, like we said before in this time, not a lot of 

1  

00:17:53

Information, but just frustrating. Like I want to know 

0  

00:17:55

More. I do want to know a lot more. I do. So then Ebeneezer fair banks and prudence Farrington pageants had six children. Abner, which again? Too many. Yes. Abner. Ebeneezer Jr. Of Gore's Joshua, Jason, William and prudence. Oh, so you got to name two kids, literally. Good for you. This is 18. Oh one. Perhaps you burst all those kids. You name one after you. 

1  

00:18:36

I did use a lot of family names. Like when we look at the Hamilton family, you know, they 

0  

00:18:41

Had similar 

1  

00:18:42

Ones. I mean, they use a lot of the same family names over. Cause that was a big deal to honor. 

0  

00:18:47

Yeah. It's just, it's so funny to me. You like, it's like Gilmore girls where there's Lorelei and Lorelei, but Loreleis Rory. Yeah. The second one. It's crazy. It's it's just so funny to me. So yeah, Jason Fairbank's, who is the other character, I guess, of our story. And he is a character. He was the youngest in the family. And if you know anything about birth order psychology, 

1  

00:19:15

Which I do again, I was a teacher 

0  

00:19:18

Then keep in mind that Jason is the youngest. It comes back. And if you're not super familiar with like the 

1  

00:19:31

Stereotypically, it's not like set in stairs 

0  

00:19:35

That every time, most of the time, exactly. Typically your oldest child, if there's, you know, more than one child in the family and you're not blessed to be a only child like myself, you know, the oldest is typically the overachiever or they're the one that makes the good grades. They're kind of like the mothering figure of the siblings and 

1  

00:19:56

Trailblazer 

0  

00:19:57

Taking care of all the younger ones. Like they're the first ones to do it all. So kind of like the parents, that's like, we're going to show our best. Like 

1  

00:20:07

They do all 

0  

00:20:07

The firsts. Then you have your middle child, which typically, 

1  

00:20:12

And I'm the middle child. Yes. 

0  

00:20:14

The middle children typically strive to overachieve. Like that's kind of, it's kind of ingrained because they want to be more noticed. They want to stand out from their siblings. I mean, a lot of people jokingly will say that they're like, they're the middle child. Like they're the forgotten one and everything. I don't think that's the case. 

1  

00:20:35

Sometimes it's hard to, like I came after I'm an intelligent person. I don't math. I don't match. You don't count with letters. So they should not be in math. That is, that is my personal philosophy. My sister who had the same teachers as I did in high school school, 

0  

00:20:53

Jodie at length, in our intro about her, you may go back. Hello, Jerry. 

1  

00:20:58

Very, very, I mean, she's very intelligent. And she, she maths, like she got it. She could see that she, and one particular math teacher, they got along really well. She was his teacher's aid and, and he would bark at her and she'd bark right back. Like, you know, they went back and forth. And then I had him in algebra two, but she's doing trig and physics and all the algebra two. And finally somewhere in the year, he says, come by my last name. And I said, yes, sir. And he said, you're not much like your sister are you? And I said, no, sir. I'm not. 

0  

00:21:37

I don't know whether to take that as a compliment 

1  

00:21:44

In that class. Believe it or not. I tried my best to be invisible because I really wasn't comfortable. And so I wasn't mouthing 

0  

00:21:51

To, when you, when you are the second child, you, there's an expectation. There is because there's been an expectation built up. And so, you know, I can be hard for middle children and we 

1  

00:22:02

Also were peacemakers. That's true. Y'all do 

0  

00:22:04

Like to keep the peace. Then we get to the younger siblings. 

1  

00:22:09

Yeah. They're like, 

0  

00:22:12

There's an exception to all this will to be a middle. You have to have a younger ma'am. So this is, you know, there are exceptions to every rule. Typically the younger child is the child that gets away with everything. 

1  

00:22:26

Yeah. And I will say gender does play a role into it as well, because it was my sister, then myself and then eight years after me was a brother. And so gender is different and he had three mamas. And I will say that his wife has thanked my sister and myself more than once for exposing him to female crazy. And then the young age of, because he understands that sometimes we just want you to say, let me give you a hug or Hey, that stinks. 

0  

00:23:01

And your brother is very smart too. He is he's he's in the Navy. He is. And 

1  

00:23:08

He's in the seminar program. Yeah. So 

0  

00:23:10

He's very intelligent. So what happened 

1  

00:23:13

To you? It's 

0  

00:23:16

Like, you're the, it's like, you're the ice cream and the sandwich 

1  

00:23:20

And the sweet part, but I 

0  

00:23:22

Expected there to be cookies and cream and that ice cream. And then it's not, 

1  

00:23:26

That's what I get to work from home. So I think I did pretty dad gum. Well, they had a chance I got to wear a uniform or a suit. 

0  

00:23:35

I mean, that's true. So, you know, like we said, there is, there is some, some interesting things with birth order psychology. There's a lot that's out there to tell the truth to it. Yeah. I think there is a lot of truth to it. And then, you know, there's also things to be said about when you marry someone else, depending on what birth order there, and, or not in usually two oldest can't get married. Like it's just a clash. It's like clash of the Titans. Like you're always like arguing with each other. You know, you want to be the dominant stereotypically again, we're not talking about everyone. You know, I think two middle children can marry. 

0  

00:24:15

Husband's a middle child as well. The two youngest can't like to selfish an oldest, any youngest can a middle and a youngest can and middle and middle that middle can marry anybody. They're east middle, middle. We'll just make things work there. Typo blood, which my husband does as well as course. But yeah, like you're the, you're a middle, I'm a middle and he's a middle and it works like my, and I mean, come to think of it. I'm an only, and typically with onlys, only's, can't marry the oldest they'll clash. 

0  

00:24:55

We can marry another only because they kind of get our weird idiosyncrasies and we can marry the youngest because we're used to taking care of other people yeah. In the middle too, because you would just, yeah, middle middle is fine, but it's just really the oldest and like, come to think of it. My boyfriend is he's a middle. So that would make sense. I'm an only, and he's a middle, but he's older than me. So like by a few years. And so it's kind of funny because it's like, while it doesn't seem like it, I don't know. For some reason I still feel like he he's the oldest. 

0  

00:25:36

And then I remember, oh, he has an older sister who like guys, if his older sister she's true, I've heard too many stories and she's funny, me and her were on the same level. So yeah. Again, if you know anything about that birth order, you know, now you do, if you didn't, if you don't know now, you know, you don't know. So just pay close attention to that when it comes to Jason's actions in this case. And I think that it'll be very telling, you know, kind of, as we go, Jason came from a prominent Puritan family in Dedham and they lived in the historical Fairbank's house that I mentioned earlier. 

0  

00:26:19

That's like this. Yeah. It's like a hundred. And like 70 years old by this point, Occulus. Yeah. So when Jason was 12, he got the smallpox vaccine and ended up getting smallpox. Anyway, he was treated by doctors. Most likely he was treated with mercury, which actually stunted the growth and that wasn't quite as good. And now it's stunted the growth in Jason's right arm and left it kind of paralyzed, almost some say frozen, some say paralyzed, 

1  

00:26:58

The growth like was one arm shorter than the other. 

0  

00:27:01

Yeah. The growth wasn't exactly the same as his left arm. So I was really curious about mercury kind of used as medicine because clearly we don't do that anymore. Like we can't even get mercury thermometers, like that's not a thing. So I found an article from the associated press and they just kind of put it out there just in a perfect way. So the article was titled mercury as many forms, some that cure some that killed 

1  

00:27:33

Pretty cut and dry there. It's like, all right. I mean, I will say my dad talked about when he was in chemistry in the same high school that I attended, by the way we had the same senior English teacher. But when he was in high school, they, he talked about playing with mercury, just crazy, the liquid mercury. 

0  

00:27:58

So there are three forms of mercury and this is all from the associated press article. This is a quote from them. There are three main forms. Elemental. Mercury is the silvery liquid used in thermometers and thermostats and barometers and batteries. And by experimenting students in chemistry class, my dad, it also is used in folk medicine and in some religious practices, 

1  

00:28:27

What religious practices would. 

0  

00:28:30

And if you guys know, like, please tell us what that's about. That's sounds like one of those churches it's way out it vaporizes quickly when it's heated and it's only toxic in its vaporized form. So then we have inorganic mercury salts that are typically used in antiseptic creams and ointments. One of the most commonly used mercury salts is Calla Mel. And so white powder employed in electrochemistry for years. It was used as a teething powder for infants, until it was discontinued in the 1940s. 

1  

00:29:14

We found out, Hey, 

0  

00:29:18

So organic mercury compounds such as dine, methyl, mercury, and methyl, mercury are sometimes used as are sometimes used as fungus sides and herbicides, and are by far the most dangerous form. Unlike elemental, mercury, they are readily able to be absorbed by the body and signs of poisoning. Take an insidiously long time to a peer. Yeah. Mercury poisoning. It can be reversed if it's caught quick enough. But unfortunately with Dima, ethyl, mercury, once the side effects are noticed, the damage is irreversible, which is likely what happened with Jason Fairbank's. 

0  

00:30:08

Yeah. So I really, and then this article fun fact, the term mad Hatter. 

1  

00:30:15

I know this, this is one of those obscure facts. 

0  

00:30:19

It's so weird. So the term mad Hatter originated in England when factories used mercury to clean and its toxic effects wore off on the employees. They were called mad hatters 

1  

00:30:34

Because I mean, they were immersed in it all the time. They had it on their hands. I mean, you know, they, it was all around them and said they just absorbed it in their skin. They breathed it in and they went, 

0  

00:30:46

Oh, which makes me think. And there are some people out there you're going to be screaming at me and just a second, but it makes me think there's this case where it's these women. And I want to say they worked in a watch factory or something, but they were always touching the certain specific time, like type of radiation, 

1  

00:31:04

Radium. There is one that there's a new show about it on 

0  

00:31:06

Netflix. I don't know they taught, but these women, like they glue in the dark. It's crazy. And I know some of you were like screaming. What the name of this is at me. And there's like glowed in the dark. They glue dead now, but wouldn't they still be glowed. I don't know the glue. 

1  

00:31:30

Interesting. I dunno. We'll conjugate that 

0  

00:31:33

Dictionary contact us. I don't know. So according to Ebeneezer Jr. Jason's who, you know, he was Jason's brother and he'll he kind of faced big brother, right? I believe so. All I remember is that Jason's the youngest, so he'd have to be big brother obviously, but I don't remember how old he is in, in relation to Jason. I would think that the first several 

1  

00:31:59

Be the one that was named the father, that's just kind of, 

0  

00:32:03

So according to Ebeneezer, Jr. The effects of the illness never really quite went away. If Jason exerted himself too much, while working, he would get headaches, a fever, fatigue. And even like you would believe in his lungs that I've never heard that. So while the description of Betsy is always glowing and it's consistent and you know, everyone loved her. Jason seems to have kind of a Jekyll Hyde complex to him. Jason didn't Excel in academics. And his parents recommended that he tried to pick up a trade instead of education, which reminds me of when Marcia, my mother, I know, I know you're listening. 

0  

00:32:52

It's kind of like when I played softball for that little bit of time, can you imagine? And my mom is like, honey, we try something else. It's like Jason too stupid to go to school, try a trade, do a trade, please. We need trades. People do trades. I mean, and you have to be smart to do well. Jason was otherwise abled, I guess the best way to say it. He couldn't, he couldn't use his ride on, 

1  

00:33:24

He couldn't be a blacksmith. He couldn't do things that were labor-intensive, but he'd give me like a watchmaker or you know, 

0  

00:33:32

Jeweler. Maybe he didn't want to glow in the door. So even though Jason was failing in school, his parents still sent him to an academy that would help prepare him for college. Like a prep school, kind of like a prep school. One perception was that Jason was the rich kid who didn't really care that his parents were sending him to an expensive school. And he was quote frequently guilty of excess and guilty of exits and imputed to juvenile indiscretions. But Ebeneezer Jr said his brother pursued education because he knew it was the best way for him to get a job and that he could earn money on his own because he was not able to work very well. 

0  

00:34:25

This would kind of be the only way that he would be able to get a job and be able to make money for himself. Yeah. Either way he met Betsy fails and he fell in love immediately. And then it bordered on obsession over a period of years, Betsy and Jason dated on and off, which this is disputed depending on which side of the family or friends you're talking to. Betsy's friends said that she was in love with Jason, but her family said that they were at best acquaintances and Betsy did not want to marry him. 

0  

00:35:05

So the love 

1  

00:35:06

Was on his side 

0  

00:35:07

Only. That's kind of what the parents are saying of Betsy. But you said the friend said friend said that they were in love. 

1  

00:35:16

I'm inclined to go with what the friends say because 

0  

00:35:19

Yeah. And we'll get into it later. But like the fails did not like Jason. And like I said, we'll get into it, but it's just, it's it's weird. It's a, he said, she said for sure, on May, 1801 Jason's niece it's it's unclear because we don't know how old the niece was. She either playfully or maliciously made a fake marriage certificate for Jason and Betsy. I don't know why you would do that. It's the weirdest thing. So there's some speculation that the certificate was meant as a kind of trap to convince Betsy that the couple were already somehow married to, I don't know how you would do that. 

0  

00:36:08

Did she present it to Betsy or not? The niece gave it to Jason. Sorry. So on the same day, Jason ran into his friend, Reuben Farrington and mentioned his proposal, quote, unquote to Betsy. And Jason said that he quote, planned to meet Betsy in order to have the matter settled. And this is kind of like if you got little kids around us here covers for a minute, he went on to say that he quote either intended to violate her chastity Evans or carry her to rent them, to be married for. 

0  

00:36:59

He had waited long enough, rude use me. You can wait the rest of your life. If you want to. I mean, you can watch it. The rain is not going to be long. I mean, I can't, I can't the fact that this was like, this is what he says. He's like, I love her so much. I'm either gonna violate her or I'm a kidnapper. I mean, or she's going to say, yes, it's like so weird. That's so weird to me. Not at all. So according, I mean, just, you're going to end the day, happily engage or it's going to end an assault. 

0  

00:37:40

I mean, you have to marry him one or two things. I mean, because at that time that's a main, it doesn't sound like a good plan. No. So the next morning it was May 18th, 1801. And Ruben Farrington saw Jason that morning and he asked Jason for some help in the garden. But Jason said he was too weak that day to help him with shad dates. He said he had good and bad days. And you know, the older he was getting his health just really kept deteriorating. It was kind of, you know, a slow decline and I wasn't uncommon or was it an alibi? The setting stage for something Ruben said that Jason was happy and Jason said he would tell him in the next couple of hours, what the outcome of his conversation with Betsy would be. 

0  

00:38:31

Betsy was at home that morning, helping her mom and sister with the house and the chores. And they both said that Betsy was in a cheerful mood. A neighbor to the fails is borrowed a book from Betsy's sister and Betsy was going to get it back to read it herself. This is my favorite. Betsy then had a glass of milk for lunch and went to the neighbor's house. Was there anything with her meal? She had a glass of milk for lunch. That is not enough. I'll be so angry. I don't like milk anyways, either. 

0  

00:39:13

I'm not a, not a fan. I never really had just straight up milk. I can't stand it. So in cereal, I, yeah, I just don't love it. Yeah. Class milk. Just like I'm stuffed. Well, they did wear corsets that on about my day. Not enough for me. I can't. So the book that she was going to get was called the history of lady, Julia Mandiville lady. It was a British book about two lovers engaged to be married, who both died. Well, that's a tragedy, very interesting as to what happens next. 

0  

00:39:56

The neighbor wasn't done with the book yet, and Betsy stayed over for about an hour more. It said she played with some of the kids at the house. She might've wrote a book, whatever she hung out for a bit. Okay. And then she walked into a nearby pasture, which that was just kind of like her way home. It's unclear whether Betsy was intending to meet with Jason that day, or if he was just kinda like creeping around, waiting for her to come, ready to give her an offer. She couldn't refuse. I mean, so around three that afternoon, a couple of Betsy's friends heard Betsy laughing in the woods nearby and then heard screaming. 

0  

00:40:38

The friends heard of Betsy's death. About 15 minutes later, Jason staggered to the fails, his home covered in blood injured and with a knife in his hand, exclaiming that Betsy had taken her own life. He continued stating that he was so distraught by what happened that he tried to do the same. This is the guy that had just said, he's going to marry her. So he's going to have her one way or another. Yeah. Betsy's father and uncle ran to the area, Jason directed them to, and they found Betsy. And it's actually said, like, I saw this in a couple of things. It was actually said that she was still alive, but not like super conscious, but she was alive. 

0  

00:41:23

So yeah, it was on her way out. Yes. I don't know. It's really a nice way to say that. So Jason's story was that he showed Betsy the fake marriage certificate as a joke, but she did not take it the same way. She took a knife and injured herself several times and then ripped up the marriage certificate saying they would never be married. Then Jason took the knife to do the same. And he was not successful. 

1  

00:41:55

I mean like, was this, is he saying she was so 

0  

00:41:57

Embarrassed by this? I don't know. She just said that the, I mean, I guess, I don't know. She was just super mad about it and we don't really know the whole conversation that happened, you know, cause between them too. Sure. So, you know, they did find the ripped up marriage certificate near Betsy's body, along with Jason's coat and wallet, either wallet out understanding, taking off a coat like it's today, fall out. I mean, it's may like you took a coat off. It's probably why you got a coat on a may in the first place. Did he has sketchy? Did he have to be aware of those guys? You see the movie Hercules, like the Disney Hercules, which with the animated one, what guys? 

0  

00:42:42

The guy that pops out and he's like, you want to buy a sundial? Oh yeah. That reminds me of when they say like coat and it's like his coat, why did he have a coat on in may? 

1  

00:42:55

And perhaps, you know, maybe wallet. It could have been like a larger item than what we are thinking. And that's what the marriage certificate was in. 

0  

00:43:04

Yeah, that's true. It's just something odd to be just out. Yeah. The injuries that Jason sustained were too serious for him to be taken directly to jail. So he was taken inside of the fails, his home for medical treatment. So here's where I'm going to quickly describe the injuries, which caused Betsy's death and the injuries to Jason. It's not a super long explanation at all. It'll just take, you know, maybe 10 seconds to go through, but it's a low level, probably a low-level trigger warning. So we're gonna start in 3, 2, 1. 

0  

00:43:44

Once Betsy's body was examined, it was reported. Betsy's 11 stab wounds, looked defensive, which included one wound to her back. And one to her throat, Jason had a laceration on his throat and multiple stab wounds. The local newspaper said that Jason was still alive, but in a most deplorable situation. So, and that's, by the way, that's the end of the descriptions. She had a wound in 

1  

00:44:13

Her back that she inflicted 

0  

00:44:16

Herself. That's what they're saying. Well, one difficult honor. So Jason was tried in front of the Supreme court of Massachusetts around three months later in August, it was actually August eight. The prosecution was handled by James Sullivan, who at the time was the Republican attorney general of Massachusetts. And he actually went on to be governor the defense had two prominent Federalist attorneys. I don't know why that's important, but it was in everything. So Harrison gray important. I know Harrison gray Otis and John Lowell Jr. 

0  

00:44:59

They were his attorneys and Harrison gray Otis was, they said he was one of the famous young Federalists as 

1  

00:45:07

Opposed to the famous old federal. 

0  

00:45:09

It just meant that he was younger. And he was a younger generation of the Federalists who just followed in the footsteps of Jeffersonian Republicans at the time. So witnesses talked about how Jason had threatened Betsy and her mother on different occasions and how they never met at Betsy's house because it was known that the Fales didn't like, Jason, 

1  

00:45:34

Do we know that the threats really were to Betsy and her mom? Or was it mainly to her mom? 

0  

00:45:40

I think it could have been in front of Betsy, but 

1  

00:45:43

To her mom. I mean, because if they were, you know, friendly, at least that, I mean, that would make sense that it would said to her mom, like, I can't believe 

0  

00:45:55

We still don't even know what was said. Sure. 

1  

00:45:58

He might've been calling her names in front of his mama, her mama. 

0  

00:46:02

Exactly. So the focus of the trial, where the wounds on Betsy's body, the prosecution asserted that Betsy could have never caused the injuries she sustained to herself, especially given that one of them was in her back. Big Bakley. Yeah. But the defense had a compelling argument that given Jason's physical condition, he couldn't have injured Betsy in those ways, since Jason's right. Arm was completely stiff from the elbow and Jason couldn't even dress himself in the morning without health. 

1  

00:46:39

It was his did his elbow bend, but everything below that didn't bend. And 

0  

00:46:46

It says he was stiff at the elbow, 

1  

00:46:51

His elbow. 

0  

00:46:54

So, you know, and he couldn't even get dressed without help. So how could he possibly do this? Wow. That was the defense, you know, that's their argument. So I had to get his coat 

1  

00:47:04

Off, Get it 

0  

00:47:08

Off, but you could probably need help getting it on. Maybe it was hot. And he was just going to throw it over his arm as he walked away, you know, I don't know both sides of the case were flimsy. And so the attorneys just made up stories about what happened pretty much nice. And the defense painted a picture of Betsy and Jason as kind of a Romeo Juliet star crossed lovers from opposite sides and the families didn't like each other. Yeah. And theirs, how his family felt about her family. There's nothing. Not that I really saw. I tried to see if you things, but, but yeah, there wasn't really a whole lot out there. 

0  

00:47:49

So this is about to get quote heavy. And it's because I actually have the quotes to be able to find there is a trial transcript on lovey weeks, but honest, I did not go through it and read it because there's a lot of other information out there on levy weeks on this case, the trial transcript is kind of it. So this will have in this very flowery language, but they did speak very flowery back then. So Harrison gray Otis and he's for the defense said quote, when their conversation turned upon their future prospects and the small hopes, which they entertained of a happy union, Jason produced this certificate. 

0  

00:48:33

And after relating the history of his origin, where they desperate and melancholy look correspondent to their feelings, he observed, I fear we shall never be near to the gratification of our fond expectations. I fear that this little fiction is the highest consummation of our bliss, which we shall ever realize and tearing into pieces. The scroll on which their names were United. Thus said he are Tinder. His hopes are scattered to the winds, perhaps this little incident, more than all others contributed to Rouse a frenzy and despair, which induced her rashly to terminate by her own hand for existence. 

0  

00:49:22

Wow. Right. That's what going around the world across the street. Oh, get it. Yeah. It's there's more, oh, there's more. The prosecution turned Jason into a jealous lustful degenerate who was trying to corrupt Betsy and force her into a marriage. She just didn't want Jason's rage grew when he tried to assault her. But when he wasn't able to form this, pushed him over the edge. James Sullivan said, quote, could that have been the laughter? 

0  

00:50:03

Laughter. Which you imagine somebody over the edge pretty quick lock. I'm just saying yeah. Oh it was laughter. And then, oh well. And he does like, he doesn't have use of his right arm. So having another part of his body, let him feel down. Yeah. 

1  

00:50:30

That's that's an escalating. 

0  

00:50:32

Yeah. That could cause a rage. 

1  

00:50:35

If you get laughed at, by the object of your obsession, it sounds like obsession to me. 

0  

00:50:41

That's what it sounds like to me too. 

1  

00:50:45

It sounds like she's trying to play it. Cool. And like, yeah, we can hang out, but whoa, whoa. 

0  

00:50:49

Yeah. I don't know. And when we get to Jason's story, it's even more like what happened like this doesn't make sense. So let's see James Sullivan, who was for the prosecution said, I now call again your imaginations to an image from whence the eyes turn with horror and of which language refuses a description. When he had produced the false certificate and she had with virtuous indignation tore the imposition in pieces. He became enraged. 

0  

00:51:29

Perhaps the knife was first exhibited to obtain by terror. What he feared. He could not obtain by force. She turned on her face, the stab on her back, altered her position. Her shoes and Shoal were thrown off in the struggle. When her arms defended her throat, the wound were given in her bosom to remove the obstruction and her arms and hands mangled to gain access thus far led on. He found no retreat, but gave the ghastly wound, which more immediately produced her death. 

0  

00:52:09

But I quit the horrid and distressing scene. I don't know. Yikes. That's a lot mangled 

1  

00:52:19

Hands and that's that's bad. So it doesn't sound like something that somebody would do to themselves. I mean, if you're trying to hurt yourself, then you be kind of bored. Right? I mean, I haven't tried to hurt myself, but 

0  

00:52:33

Yeah. Jason took the stand. I'm kind of surprised. Sometimes they normally 

1  

00:52:42

Kind of advise against 

0  

00:52:43

That. So he took the stand and he had his own statement and it's a bit of a long one, but very interesting. Jason said, and now with all sorrow and blame to myself, do I pursue the remainder of this melancholy history for I replied angrily and roughly that if she were capable and willing to believe all that her sisters said upon the subject, she might go to the devil with them. Ooh. Since she's so well knew that I had already possessed her person and received the pledge of her most tender attachment. 

0  

00:53:28

She then with great quickness, demanded of me, if I have ever told anyone of our connection, I rashly, but sincerely answered that I had indeed and trusted our secrets to my intimate friends, Reuben Farrington, and Isaac wedding upon which she violently exclaimed. Oh, you are a monster. And looking on me as I sat whittling a small piece of wood with a pen knife, she cried out, give me that knife. I will put an end to my existence. You false hearted ban for I'd rather die than live. 

0  

00:54:09

At the same time, stretching out her hand. She took the knife and began as if in a state of distraction to stab her breast and body screaming out and walking violently from me while I struck with astonishment remained without power and in a cold state of insensibility, but was too, too soon awakened from this dreadful stupid vacation by her coming in, either falling or sitting down by me, her throat was cut, which scene I immediately seized that cruel knife, which had robbed me of all my fond heart held dear. And yet, while it remained wet with her blood stabbed myself and many and repeated places only leaving off when I had finished cutting my own throat. 

0  

00:54:58

And when I believed all was over for me. So he explains that he had the knife because he was whittling. Do we know if this piece of what he was whittling was whatever. They didn't say anything about him doing. They just, I never saw anything that said anything about what he was whittling. What was like in his hands. I didn't see anything about that. I'm curious. Yeah. I find it interesting though, that you choose when you're on trial for a woman's murder to say that the reason you got into an argument with her was essentially because she talked about how she was like, because you talked about how you took her quote, chest to chastity. 

0  

00:55:54

So essentially like, sorry, if you got kids wrong, but essentially you told people we had sex. Yeah. How dare you. She's a fallen woman. But she, especially at that time was, you were ruined and it's just, which is so crazy. But you know, it's just to say that that was the whole reason they had an argument. Seems a little self-serving of like, oh, well I couldn't have not performed that. Couldn't have been the reason it's just it's so, 

1  

00:56:25

And maybe he's lending truth and fiction together. I mean, surely she very well could have called him a monster possibility, but you know, 

0  

00:56:35

Jason Fairbank's was found guilty of the murder of Elizabeth Betsy fails and sentenced to death by hanging. Jason was taken after the trial to Dedham jail, to wait for his execution. But he didn't go to the gallows without a fight. Mom Ebenezer Jr. Along with some other friends and relatives went to Dedham jail and overpowered the jailer to break Jason out immediately, a thousand dollar bounty was set for Jason's return, which a thousand dollars then is like $21,000 now. Oh yeah. The plan was to get to upper New York and then cross over into Canada. 

0  

00:57:20

But Jason got hungry. I mean like it's hard out there. You got to eat just south of the U S Canada border. Jason stopped to get some breakfast. 

1  

00:57:30

I mean, that's the way I travel. I'll ask. 

0  

00:57:31

I mean, I understand. I, I do too. When Moses holds a guy from Hadley, Massachusetts who was hunting for Jason, spotted Jason and hold him back with the help of three other men, just to make sure Jason didn't escape again, he was put in a more secure jail in Boston until he was executed. 

1  

00:57:57

If he was such a, you know, disabled, weak, whatever, God, why did it take four men to bring him back? 

0  

00:58:10

That's a good question. But, and I didn't really put it in here because it's a little bit confusing, but he did have like a cousin that was with him. 

1  

00:58:22

So it wasn't just him. 

0  

00:58:25

And I didn't put it in because it is a little confusing because it was just another name to throw in there. It was only just two seconds, but he did one of the relatives that helped get him out of jail was going through, 

1  

00:58:36

It was on the lamb with. Gotcha. So that would make more sense. Would there be an EMP people? Cause I mean, if he 

0  

00:58:45

'cause, I'm sure the other guy was going to jail because it was muddy out. Yeah. So September 10th, 1801 Jason Fairbank's his sentence was carried out and it was carried out in Dedham, roughly 10,000 people, sorry. Roughly 10,000 people came to witness it, which was around that thought a people. It was five times more than the population at the town. Wow. Which think about this. It's so crazy. People say true crime is just not, oh, this is so new are so many people, 10,000 people also 

1  

00:59:31

Didn't 

0  

00:59:32

Have to do. 

1  

00:59:33

Yeah. I didn't have movies. I didn't have radio. You know, that was kind of entertainment. And that was one way to have conversation. I was there. I saw it because you didn't have a news crew. 

0  

00:59:47

So I'm just, 

1  

00:59:49

I mean, I don't think I'm in what it, people 

0  

00:59:52

Let's say you're walking out to your house. Okay. You look over your neighbors walking out to, and he's like, oh, hello, Goodfellow. Are you going to the hanging today? Shall we meet at the gallows later? I will save your family a spot on the lawn. Like, 

1  

01:00:16

Well, but you know what? I have heard that 

0  

01:00:18

Tint carts out there, somebody selling t-shirts I don't think he did that. Yeah, they did it towed bunnies, but that's a whole other show. 

1  

01:00:27

But like I know the battle of Gettysburg, they thought it was just going to be just a one, you know, one battle and let people picnic and to see this historic event, 

0  

01:00:41

Which let's pick Nick and gunfire. Sounds great. But I mean, it's just so crazy to me that it's five times the population of the town. Yeah. Big deal people. So 

1  

01:00:54

Executions were there. I'm curious. I'm just curious to see maybe that's why. Cause it wasn't a very common thing. Yeah. 

0  

01:01:00

I don't know. I can tell you that then the, now I can tell you based off of what I saw, because full disclosure, I have a website called death executions of the U S and in that year, I didn't see another one on his date. Okay. So some, it wasn't another one that day. There were others that year, but they weren't in the same area. So maybe that's why it was, they were like, 

1  

01:01:28

Yeah, I can 

0  

01:01:29

Say I saw it. I mean, I would have 

1  

01:01:32

Stayed at the house. I'd have said, I will watch your cat. 

0  

01:01:35

Your dog probably would have gone. I 

1  

01:01:38

Would have watched your animals. That's 

0  

01:01:40

True. That's true. The 5,000 that I have around me right now. So if y'all hear like little toes tapping on the floor, Meow or whatever, it's I have a zoo. Jason was buried in the old village cemetery. And it's the same cemetery that Betsy is in. 

1  

01:02:01

I think if I were Betty's parents, I'd be like, you need to find somewhere else to bury your mother and son, 

0  

01:02:08

The only cemetery making Dean one in the area, 

1  

01:02:13

Each family has a histone 

0  

01:02:15

Barium in the backyard. 

1  

01:02:17

Your family has historic. I'm sure it had plenty of land with it. I mean, out in the old country town that my family comes from out on the old land, there is a cemetery out there. I'm just saying, 

0  

01:02:36

Would you like to tell the people why your husband did not think it a good idea to bury a lost, loved pet in the backyard? Oh, someone was out there and why did he not 

1  

01:02:56

Sweet. 

0  

01:02:58

Bless Michael. But that is the funny, because I mean, honestly though, guys, I know this sounds weird, but 

1  

01:03:07

Someone is, is a dog. It's not like a soul. It is a duck. 

0  

01:03:09

And they had 

1  

01:03:10

A previous dog. His name was Barney, 

0  

01:03:12

Barney and NRP, thigh and axle is, are, is the most recent dearly departed. Yes. And he's say English massive. He's big, big. 

1  

01:03:25

He was about 130 pounds, which is really small for a mask that truly, 

0  

01:03:30

So why did Michael say he didn't think it'd be a great idea to very axle in the backyard? 

1  

01:03:40

Actually, it, wasn't a great idea to Barry Axel just outside the fence of the backyard, because that is where Barney is laid to rest. If he's not exactly sure, basically, but he's actually like how far up or whatever. And he does not want to zoom. Look, 

0  

01:04:06

That is the body of a grave. Yeah, 

1  

01:04:09

Exactly. I should've put some endangered plants on top of it. I've got a cat over there too, but not in the same place. This the cat I ran over. 

0  

01:04:26

Oh goodness. So two days after Jason's execution, the report of the trial of Jason Fairbank's was published. And that was the transcript of the after he died 

1  

01:04:38

Two days. 

0  

01:04:40

So I wonder what, he's not even cold. 

1  

01:04:42

I wonder if they executed him early because of his escape, but they're like Wayne taking any chances with string him up. 

0  

01:04:52

The murder was in may. The trial was in August and his execution was September. They did not waste. 

1  

01:04:58

And we lie. We're not giving you a chance to run away again. Let's string them up. You know? So I wonder if that was, I mean, I definitely could. That is pretty quick. 

0  

01:05:08

Yeah. It's swift it's quick. You know, and that was how I got a lot of the quotes for this. Like I said before, this is kind of that's of one of the only pieces of really hard evidence of, of the trial Ebeneezer Jr. If you'll remember the loving older brother of Jason wrote a book called the solemn declaration of the late unfortunate Jason Fairbank's and he spent the rest of his life and a considerable amount of money to try improve his brother's innocence. 

1  

01:05:44

That's a 

0  

01:05:45

Lot, but he was not, he, he was not successful. So 

1  

01:05:51

Yeah, I have a younger brother and I love my younger brother and my younger brother is not the typical younger child just because there's so 

0  

01:05:59

Much, it's like an only child. I mean really 

1  

01:06:02

Because you know exactly. I mean, he was in elementary school, my sister got married and he was in middle school when I got married. So I mean, you know, it, it, it, it makes a difference and he was not quite as self-absorbed, you know, he was smothered, but 

0  

01:06:20

Younger child. 

1  

01:06:22

I mean, and let me tell you I'm on my brother's side and I will defend him, but he doesn't have that kind of interesting personality. He has an interesting personality, but not in, in a negative way. Right, right. 

0  

01:06:40

Which exactly, I 

1  

01:06:42

Wonder if he was given to fits of anger, you know what I mean? Like if he was this younger child and he was like the quintessential younger child and was he coddled more because he had, I think that disability. And so he, you know, it was a petulant child. He was able to just stamp his feet and get what he wanted. And maybe that's why he did this to her because he was like, if I can't have you, can't nobody have you, no, that's not good grammar, but you know, you know, 

0  

01:07:07

Came from a rich family. 

1  

01:07:10

So he already was ahead of most people anyway. Exactly. And if you're the youngest and you have a disability, I mean, you know, he was coddled, 

0  

01:07:23

The parents of Betsy say it was, they were not going to get married or, you know, or there's some speculation that Betsy's family didn't like him. 

1  

01:07:37

Yeah. So maybe they had seen as spits of anger. If, if there were any men, I don't know that there've been any indications that there were, 

0  

01:07:45

I wonder though, if it's not so much a case of, they knew his health was deteriorating and maybe he couldn't provide what she did have a rich family or, or they knew that he might not live much longer 

1  

01:08:00

And might not be able to give them grandchildren 

0  

01:08:06

Less sinister. They're trying to protect Betsy from losing a husband at the age of 

1  

01:08:12

19. 

0  

01:08:14

Ooh, she was young. Well, 

1  

01:08:15

But also at that time, I mean, they had a large house and it was not uncommon for, you know more of the family to live together in the large family house either. So I mean, maybe that was the plan. And so we were coastal mom and daddy's or big brother or whoever, because I'm, haven't heard much about his parents in the trial. 

0  

01:08:42

I mean, they, they defended him just like I've been using, they were still alive. They were still alive at this point. And I think if I remember correctly from the research that I did, Jason was not the only son they lost that year. Yeah. It was Abner that died in 1801 as well before or 

1  

01:09:10

After, before. So they were 

0  

01:09:13

Already, as they already had, they already had one child that they lost. They could be trying to hold on to anything they can or this one, you know, which I, you know, I hate, but if you did the crime, I am sorry. Yeah. You know, and, and we're not here to speculate and say, somebody for sure did something when they didn't, 

1  

01:09:37

But sounds point to, he did 

0  

01:09:39

This. Yeah. And we'll talk about <em></em> razor in the next episode, Holmes, razor, which is basically just the most likely thing to happen is probably what happened. Yeah. That 

1  

01:09:51

Makes sense. 

0  

01:09:53

Exactly. And I mean, if you go off of that theory, everything kind of points to Jason, but then he had a disability. So was he very, you know, was Ooh, because he has, 

1  

01:10:10

Did he have a mercurial temperament? Oh, oh, come on. I mean, really? 

0  

01:10:20

That is true, but I wonder was he like amny dextrous? Was he able to use his left arm very well? Or women have like pulled cars off of kids? Like, was it such a rage of passion that he was just able to do that? 

1  

01:10:44

I think he just did well, and here's my thing. You said there was laughter and then screams. And so, you know, in real life, maybe as you've seen as such, well, man, I just, I mean, I did say maybe there was laughter, but there were issues and that what I really think could be, you know, maybe they, she thought that they were playing around and then all of a sudden, you know, because she, she thought he was joking or, and maybe he got mad cause she laughed at him about that and we're joking around. And then like he hugs her and all of a sudden, Hey, 

0  

01:11:20

I think she, I think the, the wound on her back is best described. I think she was running away today and 

1  

01:11:30

In her shawl was off. So maybe he tried to pet her, she 

0  

01:11:32

Grabbed her Shaw or her jacket or something. And they said her shoes were off. So she definitely tried to run at some point. Yeah. I mean, if you go off of Ockham's razor, I mean 

1  

01:11:45

All signs point to poor little rich boy, he didn't get what he wanted. 

0  

01:11:50

Unfortunately, you know, because Betsy's family did say she was happy that day. She gave knows that this is not like which our previous case with Elma, where she had verbally stated, she wanted to do these things. It's not a case of that. This is, she was happy people, everyone loved her. She was. 

1  

01:12:14

But on the flip side of that, it is, you know, some people that do make that choice on their own to do sometimes it takes others by surprise. It 

0  

01:12:24

Does it because 

1  

01:12:25

You worked so hard to hide that inner sadness and not make other people Saturday. I'll think of Robin Williams. 

0  

01:12:35

I mean, 

1  

01:12:36

Ordain. I mean, you know, and, and Robin Williams said the, I think this is not going to be a direct, but that, you know, the happiest people are usually the 

0  

01:12:46

Saddest 

1  

01:12:48

Because they don't want, and this was me just, you know, extrapolating from that, you know, you don't want other people to be down in the dumps and depressed. And, and, and I, you know, have had my own doubts with depression, anxiety, and all that stuff and the medicines. And they have forgotten to take my happy pill this morning, but it's fun. Just one. So I'll take it in the morning will be good. But you know, and, and there's something to be said about that. So mean, we don't know, you don't always know soon somebody, 

0  

01:13:16

You don't, you know, I just, families were a little different back. Sure. There wasn't as much, there 

1  

01:13:24

Was a very, there was a closeness and there wasn't a nail. 

0  

01:13:27

It wasn't as easy to hide something. Yeah. 

1  

01:13:30

Because you weren't on your phone, in your room or the computer or whatever. Like you were together all the time. You help with the house work. 

0  

01:13:36

I had a journal, you got five, you got four other siblings in this house. Somebody is going to be reading it no time for that. Yeah. I don't either. But you know, I just think that, yes, you, you definitely don't know. And I've dealt in my past. I've known people who made that decision for themselves and it is very shocking. And one of them was someone who kind of did have a history of mental. I hate to say mental illness, but yeah, just, just not, It is an illness, but it's, it, it was just, there was evidence there to show that, that there was some things that were mentally going on. 

0  

01:14:29

It wasn't, you know, it was a major shock, but, you know, I just don't know. I feel like that in that time, I feel like they would have known if she were, if her mood changed or something like that, 

1  

01:14:44

I just don't want to say, there's no way that 

0  

01:14:48

You don't know. No, you, you never made, 

1  

01:14:50

I I've never been suicidal, but I have been low. I've been real low. And then I, you know, it takes all the energy. I have to be quote on to go, you know, like to work, 

0  

01:15:05

We are talking about this, so sorry if it's like triggering to you. But yes, it, I mean, just to continue on that line of conversation. I mean, after I had my daughter, I had postpartum dad. And so, and that does, you do deal with suicidal ideations and it's not always, and if there are any other moms out there who have gone through it, I totally get it. I totally understand it is miserable. And it's, it is, which is funny. Cause I met you three months after I had Ellie. Really? It was wow. So, you know, 

1  

01:15:45

I only know ne I mean, I've, I've, I have only known you as a mom. I just forgot that Ellie was that. 

0  

01:15:50

Yeah, she was very young when I started there. So, you know, I did have that and you know, while we're talking about it, while we're on that platform, I want to just say like, if you think you need help, go get it. Yes. 

1  

01:16:05

Go get there's. Absolutely. No shame. 

0  

01:16:07

None is 

1  

01:16:10

It is diagnosable. Just like any illness, if you were having heart problems, you would go to the doctor for that. 

0  

01:16:17

Yes. 

1  

01:16:18

If you're having mind problems, feeling problems, go, go get checked out. 

0  

01:16:24

I mean, talk to anybody, talk to anybody. Just someone does care. Someone out there does care. We care. We do. We do. We care. And you know, 

1  

01:16:35

And we've been there. I mean, between the two of us, I think we've, 

0  

01:16:40

And I want to go ahead and say, you know, I know we're talking about this. I know it can be a triggering topic for some people, but just know, like I said, I, while Leah hasn't dealt with those, you know, thoughts or those ideations, I mean, I have been there and I do understand and just, just know, it's not always, I want to do this. It's not always, 

1  

01:17:06

What if, I mean, I have had the, what is not 

0  

01:17:10

It's what would happen if I just turned the wheel off this cliff? Yeah. What would happen if, and it's not even some, any of you wouldn't wake me up. Is it an <em></em> and it's, is it an intrusive thought that you did not have previously? Right. And we are not psychologists, psychiatrists or anything. Look, I've been to enough therapy sessions. I mean, maybe I should be, I don't know, but you know, it, it, isn't always just that plain thought of I'm going to do this. It's it's thinking of what your family would be like without you. 

0  

01:17:50

Yeah. That's, that's another part. And you I'm just here to say that it doesn't always have to be, it's not black and white. No. And mental health, just like a lot of things is a spectrum. 

1  

01:18:01

No two people are exactly the same, just because something works for one person doesn't mean it works for another and you know, you are, you are, you you're the only, 

0  

01:18:11

Yeah. You're the only you that's there. And you know, so, you know, I know this kind of took a dark turn, 

1  

01:18:18

Kinda did, but I mean, I thought, I 

0  

01:18:19

Think it is. And it's very important. And it is something that we talked about, our intro episode, that we are very big supporters of his, his mental health advocacy. Both have dealt with it, 

1  

01:18:33

Normalize it, normalize, talking about 

0  

01:18:35

It, and we've dealt with it for years. This is not something that, that is recent for us. I mean, you know, I know a lot of y'all don't don't know me very well. You're going to get to know me, but you know, we, we, yeah, we started this podcast. So, you know, kind of what comes along without, as inviting y'all into our lives, you know, I do have major depressive disorder. I do have panic anxiety. I do have OCD. OCD is not treatable. It's it's treatable. It's not curable. I'll say it that way. 

1  

01:19:14

Well, she doesn't come to my house because my house is not as pristine and beautiful as for house. 

0  

01:19:19

Mine's just, everything has a place and everything is in its place. But yeah, I thought that I was just a very clean person and that I was just very neat and very, just this, you know, until I started seeing a therapist and started talking about what gave me anxiety and then found out I am OCD. And I mean, what she does, I 

1  

01:19:40

Will lay some dirty dishes and muscling, 

0  

01:19:41

Which to the people around me, you know, I'm much, much better than I used to be. But, you know, so to say that like there's sometimes too that, you know, like I think that I had a lot of issues before I even knew that I had issues. And because I have dealt with a lot of like tragic things in my life that a lot of people haven't dealt with and you know, there's people out there who, who have, and they have on the same page as me and God bless you for it. And it's difficult. And, but, you know, it's always to like into, if you're having a hard time, talk to somebody 

1  

01:20:23

And get a friends like me, because I will pester the snot out of you until you answer me back. Like I had to turn from you, you haven't answered me where I have sent you a family name. 

0  

01:20:39

Not even you did not even emote to it. 

1  

01:20:43

I mean, just, just an acknowledgement is all on eight, which gets you Aaliyah. 

0  

01:20:49

Yeah. That's true. That's true. 

1  

01:20:51

Where are you today on a scale of one to 10? What number are you? 

0  

01:20:55

If things are bad, like you gotta be able to have, you know, 

1  

01:21:00

What number are you on? We had a tornado that came so close to us. 

0  

01:21:05

I mean, just a few houses, just 

1  

01:21:07

A few houses down. And I mean, and we had no power on me and I live on a cul-de-sac. He couldn't get out. And she was like, where are you? Have you taken your medicine? 

0  

01:21:18

Cause you know, and that's fine. Like you need friends that you do. And, and it was, it was very rough guys. Like you went without a lot of things for a lot of days. 

1  

01:21:30

I have to go into though all I had you put on real clothes, 

0  

01:21:36

But, you know, yeah. Just even, 

1  

01:21:40

And just the anxiety of storms in general of what could have happened, had 

0  

01:21:45

Anxiety. It was very bad. It 

1  

01:21:48

Changed the entire landscape. Like I missed my road. I have lived in the same house for 16 years and I missed my road the first time. It's just completely changed the landscape. Yeah. 

0  

01:22:00

Yeah. And so thankfully, you know, thankfully y'all were okay, it didn't hit your mouse, but yeah. I mean, you're a town where you live, which over here, 

1  

01:22:12

There's still piles of trash on the sides of the road because people didn't separate a lot. They're supposed to, and, and, and you know, you've got to separate because the city's not going to pick up just everything that you put out there. People have been complaining about it and you're like, well, here's why you need to do. And you know, I'm sorry that happened. But yes, you do have to pay for something. That's a soap box 

0  

01:22:39

In the area that we live in. We are, this is, this has been the time of year that we do get a lot of tornadoes. We do get a lot of bad weather. Yeah. We hate it. It's and it can be for some people it's super, super anxiety. You know, it was bad. I mean, it, it, it took houses off their foundations 

1  

01:23:03

And just set them 

0  

01:23:03

Back down. I just crazy. 

1  

01:23:07

There's one house of, one of our church members. She just sold. It has been DOD, civil or few years back and she just sold it. And if you're in the house, like people went to clean out the house or she's an older lady and people went to, you know, because there the roof was gone and you couldn't really tell, but my sister went and I watched her son while my sister went and did this. And you, she said you would open a cabinet in the kitchen and you'd see sky. 

0  

01:23:39

Oh, 

1  

01:23:41

How crazy is that? Yeah. Open the cabinet to start taking stuff up. And there's this, 

0  

01:23:46

It's got a house with a view. This is what I was thinking. Yeah. 

1  

01:23:51

But we were afraid, you know, they were afraid there's gonna be more rain coming in. There was Moraine coming in. And so people, I mean, and I have to say tragedies, when, when things, natural disasters like this happen, you, you really do see that sense of community. I mean, it happened. And then I, like I said, I live in Mayberry. I live in a small town and you know, you come out and neighbor's like, are you okay? Are you okay? Have you checked on seven? So are you okay? Are you okay? And that's the coolest thing. Yeah. Very much off topic. But 

0  

01:24:22

You know, if you, if you need help, get help hopes always there help. And trust me, I understand. Not wanting to get out of the bed at all. Gosh, you know, we get it. But you know, somebody cares. Somebody always does. So all that to say that concludes our session. Thanks for sticking around with us guys. I know we went on a tangent there, but yeah. That's our second piece. Yeah. It was an important one and yeah. Hope you all enjoyed it. I hope y'all are enjoying these so far. And if you're back this episode, thanks. 

0  

01:25:02

Come back again. Next week is going to be great. It's going to be, it's going to be good with next week's episode. Doesn't have a trigger level 

1  

01:25:11

Guys. That's exciting. 

0  

01:25:14

It's a good story. It's a good one. So yeah, on that note, you can follow us on Instagram at one nation under crime and on Twitter at O N U C pod. If you love our podcast, just as much as we do, please follow us on your preferred podcast platform. Whether that be apple, Spotify, Google, wherever you decide to get that from, you know, and recommend us to your friends, your family, your dentist, your garbage man, a fellow 

1  

01:25:47

Woman, patient of dentist, or your dentist or doctor. I may be in line at target. 

0  

01:25:53

Yeah. Stranger on the sidewalk. I 

1  

01:25:55

Mean, you need to make small talk, you know, 

0  

01:25:58

Hey, do you like to grow? Need to make friends? You like history. You like history you to hear two seven girls talking true. That's true if we need them too. So yeah, we would appreciate it. We do have a Patrion in case anybody is interested in that is still just under one nation under crime. And if you have any questions for us, you can email us@onenationundercrimeatgmail.com or just input where you got family stories. We want to hear, we always love a good family story may be family lore. And I will forever say You got a grandfather, the went missing and a grandmother who's still here. And you're all speaking on the ground. 

0  

01:26:40

How you looked under the basement. Look just saying, you know, tell us if there's like some story that goes through your family. And it's like the one thing nobody talks about, but it happened, but nobody wants to talk about it. Talk about it. We would love to read it. Yeah. Thanks for listening to us this week, guys. We appreciate you coming back for more and come back next week. We will be here at the same time, different cry. And remember there isn't always Liberty and justice for all. We will see you next week. Bye.