July 12, 2021

1807: The Man Who Was Hanged Twice

1807: The Man Who Was Hanged Twice

If a tree falls in Genesee County, New York, can anyone hear it? We aren't sure. But, if you cut it down you might get murdered for it. In this episode, the ONUC gals discuss James McLean aka 'The Man Who Was Hanged Twice' and his victims William Orr and Archibald McLaughlin. The gals talk about militias, why you should always read what you're signing, and why 'hanged to death' actually makes sense, in some cases. 

Trigger Warning Level: None (YAY!)
 
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Sources: Correction History, Executed Today, The Daily New Online, Genesee County Local History Page, Swinging in the Rain by Rob R. Thompson a compilation of public executions in Genesee County

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Transcript

You are listening to one nation under crime, a chronological true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case from each year, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah. And now we're to episode not we're almost to the double digits. This is exciting. Guys. Y'all have gotten us all the way to the double digits. 

1  

00:00:22

And it's a multiple of three. 

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00:00:26

It is a multiple of three. Go back to episode seven guys, if you're not aware, but yeah, this is an exciting, we've gotten a big jump of listeners lately, and we've gotten a lot of you in different countries. 

1  

00:00:44

This is really exciting. It 

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00:00:45

Is today. Today, episode eight came out and we have our first listener in Vienna, Austria. So hello. Hi. And that's very exciting. We now have, if you look at the United States, we now have listeners in all of the Southern half of the United States. Not every Southern state, not just the Southern states. Well, we need Kentucky. Kentucky's always kind of, is it south? Is it not Mason Dixon line? Not really, but if you look at it, we have all of the Southern half of the United States. 

0  

00:01:25

So I just want to know where the Midwest is. What are y'all doing? Do y'all not like it. Do you not love us? I, I don't want to know if you don't love me though. I just need you to like them. We're a 

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00:01:37

Delight. I'm just saying, 

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00:01:39

So yeah, we've gotten a lot more listeners. We got our first Scottish listener, 

1  

00:01:46

Not my cousin. I asked, I sent him a message and I was like, Hey, Blair, is this you? And he's like, no, it's not me. So we may have center because I asked him, he was like, oh, well, I'll listen to it. 

0  

00:02:01

Well, we haven't had anybody else in, in Scotland, but whoever is in Scotland, downloaded several of our episodes already. So it's so exciting. We have all of these listeners. We now have like a pretty good bit in England. We've got, like I said, we've got Austria, we've got all a lot of the United States. So many people are finding us and we just appreciate it so much. You all are clearly supporting us and clearly telling other people about us and keep it on just delightful as well. Yes. Please find a slight full, we would love for you to do that. And we're trying to make our way to crime con 2022. So recently crime con dates were announced. 

0  

00:02:46

And if y'all aren't aware, crime con is, is kind of like the convention for all things, crime, oxygen, podcasts, investigation, discovery, Dateline, all of those things will be there. It's going to be in Las Vegas. This is not an ad. We are not sponsored by crime con. I would love for us to be in crime con, please accept us on podcast row. But we, you know, all of those dates were announced recently. And so we, we are trying to plan to see if we're going to be able to make it. We're really hoping that we are. It is the, if you are interested in getting tickets, I know tickets have gone on sale and there are a few other podcasts that I think already have discount codes for it. 

0  

00:03:27

So go search for them. Cause I know tickets are not super cheap, but it's in Las Vegas and there's Poland T to do. I've never been heard. It's heard, it's heard it's a lovely quiet town. So, you know, if that's something you want to do, I believe it's April. I think it's the very end of April. It's the last weekend in April, I think the 28th. And it goes to May 1st, something like that, somewhere in there, but it starts on a Friday and ends on a Sunday. So, and I think they might have some events that come in on Thursday. I think some people that show up a little 

1  

00:03:58

Early in that city, so 

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00:04:00

It's, it's a sleepy town. It's, it'd be really nice if, if it like hit the hit the big time there. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's a shame really. So yeah, we are into episode nine and Leah doesn't know what case we're covering this week, 

1  

00:04:19

But she did tell me it has to do with Scottish people, which picks my interest. Yes, 

0  

00:04:26

It is. It does have to do we have three Scotsman in our case today, but it actually relates back to a question that Leah asked in episode seven. It does. So I didn't even know. So Leah asked racking episode seven, if someone is sentenced to be hanged, why are you sentenced to be hanged till death? Oh, so this week we are covering James McLean for the year of 1807 or better known as the man Haines twice. 

1  

00:05:08

Did you know this? When I asked that question, I didn't, That would have been so neat. I 

0  

00:05:14

Had another case. Well, and what's funny is I didn't, even when I might have, I'm not sure, but I had another, I had another case lined up for this week and I just, I wasn't feeling it. It was just one of those that I was, I just really didn't feel into it. And I know that sounds really bad, but there wasn't a lot of information and it was just kind of, yeah, it was just really kind of hard to find a lot on and, and, you know, kind of other than this person died, that was really all that I could find. So I found this case and well, actually my, no, I found it. I was gonna say because me and my boyfriend were looking for cases. 

0  

00:05:54

Cause I told him, I was like, I don't like the case I chose for this year. 

1  

00:05:57

Like Claire did not come through for you 

0  

00:06:00

Look, our research assistant. She needs to be fired. We've already discussed this, you know, just saying, but so yeah, we're going to cover James McLean, the man who was hanged twice and we'll get into why that happened. 

1  

00:06:14

He was hanged twice. 

0  

00:06:15

Yes. So we're going to go ahead and go to our sources this week. I don't even need to say it anymore. Wikipedia, great resource for all things. One of them, a website that I found was called correction history.org, and they actually had a few different articles on this one. So that was super helpful executed today. Always a fantastic site. Hello NSA agent Brad. Nice to see you again, spying on me this week. 

1  

00:06:49

I have a quick question. Correction today. Is it like correctional facilities? Is that what that's about? 

0  

00:06:55

It says correction history. It might be it. I don't think it's about correctional facilities. It's kinda sounds like correcting, 

1  

00:07:06

Like correcting false 

0  

00:07:07

Information is kind of what it seemed like to me, the articles kind of tracked in that way of like, 

1  

00:07:13

Well maybe there were a couple of directions it could get. So I wasn't 

0  

00:07:16

Sure which I'll get to a fun fact in with the history of the correctional system that you'll find real interesting. Okay. So the daily news online had a really good article. Those called convicted murderer. James McLean was hung not once, but twice Genesee county, local history page, all of this took place in Genesee county and then this really great 

1  

00:07:48

Book 

0  

00:07:49

Book, it was online and it's about 155 pages, but it, I don't think it's anything that was actually published. I think it was just something that came out, but it's by Rob R Thompson and it is a compilation of public executions in Genesee county. You know, my sense of humor. And I love the name of this compilation. Very much OT here. So a compilation of public executions at this time, the only appropriate name of course is swinging in the rain 

1  

00:08:37

So bad, but I do kind of love it. I mean, I think when we share it, we share the dark humor. I mean, there's a meme that I shared with Kayla earlier and it was me fossa and it says 

0  

00:08:54

The only cat couldn't land on his fee is mean, we get that. We get that here. But yes, it's called swinging in the rain. So cleaning in 

1  

00:09:04

The rain 

0  

00:09:06

Thing. So we're going to get to the events that happened in 1807 to kind of, she's going to laugh about this all day guys 

1  

00:09:15

Residue. 

0  

00:09:17

So February 10th, 1807, the United States coast survey was established and that as it kind of states it's is what helped survey the coast to show kind of what the map of the United States actually is. It kind of helped survey all of the land there on the coast, February 19th, former vice president of the United States. Aaron Burr was arrested on charges of treason. He was accused of plotting to annex parts of Louisiana and Mexico to become a part of an independent Republic. Go back to episode six, we briefly covered it. He was arrested in Alabama. 

1  

00:09:56

So and fun fact, the best man in my brother's wedding. Oh yes. From Washington county where, 

0  

00:10:05

Where he was arrested. So March 2nd, the United States Congress passed an act to prohibit the importation of slaves into any port or place within the jurisdiction of the United States from any foreign kingdom place or country. And this would actually take effect in 1808, but it was passed in 1807, August 17th, the Claremont Robert Fulton's first American Steamboat left New York city for Albany on the Hudson river inaugurating, the first commercial Steamboat service in the world. 

0  

00:10:47

September 1st, Aaron Burr is acquitted for treason. And then December 2nd, the us Congress passed the embargo act. So that kind of, kind of Latino kind of what was going on at that time. This is when Thomas Jefferson and George Clinton are still the president and vice president. So kind of lets you know, what's going on in the U S at that time. So as we get into our story, March 16th, 1807, James McClain murdered William or an Archibald MacLaughlin with an ax, August 28th, 1807, due to a series of events, James McClain becomes known as the man who was hanged twice, what a way 

1  

00:11:34

To be known. 

0  

00:11:37

Wow. So our story this week takes place in Genesee county. There's a reason that I did it for the whole county and not a specific city. And you'll find out later it kind of took place over the county due to what happened after the 

1  

00:11:57

Murders done, done, done. 

0  

00:12:00

So Genesee county and far west New York state was founded in March of 1803. So right before this happened, when the counties were originally established in the mid 16 hundreds, it was originally a part of Albany county. There's where Albany New York is. It wasn't until 1772 that Albany county, which took up a major majority of the states split up into three separate counties, which then made Genesee county, I think it's try-on county, but then it later turned to Montgomery county and Albany county remained. So Genesee county originally started out at, so this is going to kind of get into some numbers and, but stick with me because this kind of tells you how much land there were in these areas and how far it kind of got dwindled down. 

0  

00:12:52

Genesee county originally started out at 7,100 square miles. Okay. Would you like for a hundred Alex to guess how many acres that is 

1  

00:13:09

Asking me, 

0  

00:13:09

Man, it's a big, it's a big number. I'll give you that. Hint. It's a big number, but don't know it's not 5,000, 

1  

00:13:22

It's a higher or lower than five pounds higher. I figured it was higher. I sounded stupid for that question. 20004.5 million 

0  

00:13:41

Acres. I didn't 

1  

00:13:43

See. I don't math. 

0  

00:13:44

I don't math. So this was in 1803, that it was 4.5 million acres. It's slowly dwindled down to 5,500 square miles then to 1600, then 1400 then down to 1030. And it finally ended up as a county that is 500 square miles or 320,000 acres. 

1  

00:14:12

Nice. 

0  

00:14:13

Yes. So it went from 4.5 million acres down to 320,000. Part of that land is home to the Iroquois national wildlife refuge and the tonal Wanda reservation currently. Yeah. Okay. So that, that is where the it's the Tuwanda Seneca nation of, of tribe of Indians, Tonawanda Towanda. 

1  

00:14:41

Have you seen fried green 

0  

00:14:42

Tomatoes? Yeah. It's been a long time. Biggest, 

1  

00:14:47

Sorry. 

0  

00:14:48

So fun fact. There is a town in Genesee county named Alabama. So I settle back to it in the 1820s, the Morgan affair took place where a man named William Morgan disappeared after he was imprisoned for failure to pay a debt. At this time, Freemasons were very prevalent in the area. In fact, half of the county officials were Freemasons. Morgan had tried to join the masons and was rejected and threatened to publish a book, exposing the Freemasons and their practices and where they hid the treasure. 

0  

00:15:29

Yes, obviously. And we actually, because I have all the cases planned out for the rest of the year, we will actually cover the case of William Morgan. When we get to the ninth to the 1820s, we will cover his case. So I didn't want to say too much about it. So, all right, we're going to get to our case this week. And this week, our case starts with a tree, a tree, a tree, a real tree trees at this time were kind of used for a few different reasons. Warmth and firewood was not really not really where they were aiming for a lot of time. 

0  

00:16:09

They were used to connect fences to make a shelter against and to mark lot lines. Very common. Yes. So it wouldn't be uncommon for disputes to begin over a disgruntled neighbor or an outsider cutting down a tree used by another landowner. But a lot of them didn't end up in murder. Like this one, our story begins on March 16th, 1870 with three Scotsman, James McLean, William, or an Archibald McLauchlan it was very important apparently to note at this time, that day drinking was a very common pastime in the area. 

1  

00:16:57

Wait, is that 2021? 

0  

00:16:59

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Day drinking. Okay. Not, not just drinking water during the day, like drinking during the day. I'm just saying 

1  

00:17:13

Not that we're doing, we're not doing that now. I have my cranberry juice 

0  

00:17:18

It's earlier in the day. So no, I'm not. Yeah. You've got an Arby's cup over there. I got, yeah, I got some sweet tea right now. One story relating to these three men is that they were drinking at Caledonia Springs or more commonly referred to as the Springs, all three of the men were squatters on the land and really didn't have any true claim to it. This area was referred to as the 40,000 acre tract. And according to one, all three of the men were road workers, clearing land to build the nude Duncan MCOLES road today. 

0  

00:17:58

It's now I think it's called grainy road, G R a N E Y in Genesee county. So these men, it said that they were all road workers there to clear the land. So they were laborers. It was when the men were headed back, that McLean started an argument with, or over a fallen Whitewood tree. Most sources say this would probably be a tulip tree McClain claimed or had cut down the tree on his property. He claimed while they were working on the road project, that lake, they didn't have a claim to any of the property. Correct. Scwarz okay. Just making sure exactly that. 

0  

00:18:39

Okay. So Archibald, Mick Loughlin was walking down ahead of them in the road. He heard the argument and when he turned around and saw McLean, raise an ax over his head, McClain's struck or four times. So there's not really a big trigger warning for this episode, because all I'm really going to do is just say what the injuries are. And they're not real brutal. Just an act. Yeah. I mean, you know, we've obviously our stories haven't gone well with axes so far, but anyway, that's to say there's not really a trigger warning, cause I'm not going to go into like an autopsy or anything like that. 

0  

00:19:20

That's going to be real detailed, you know, in a description or anything. So it's like I said, when McLauchlan heard the argument, he turned around and saw McClain raised an ax over his head. McClain's struck or four times once in his left shoulder, once in his left side and two fatal strikes to his throat, Mick Loughlin ran to or side and is orally dying on the ground, yelled at McLean for attacking all this did was just make McLean even more outraged. And he attacks MacLaughlin, killing him as well with a blow to McLaughlins upper back, cutting him down to the very heart Donald Donald McColl, excuse me. 

0  

00:20:05

Donald McColl was clearing brush near the new road in front of his family's cabin. So he was just kind of near the road was minding his own business. And apparently McClain looked up and saw him and was going to go towards him to attack him as well. Donald ran to McLean, grabbed the ax and Donald was quick and he was able to outrun McLean, Donald hid the ax and ran his way three miles down the road to alert the other citizens of what had happened. What had happened was his mother, Ms. McColl was outside the cabin when she witnessed the crime and the aftermath of her son, the ax away from McLean. 

0  

00:20:49

She ran into her home, slams the door and stayed inside until help. 

1  

00:20:55

Could you imagine being that mom watching your son wrestle that an ax away from a man that you know has just killed two other men? 

0  

00:21:07

Absolutely not. How 

1  

00:21:08

Terrifying would that be awful. Like 

0  

00:21:11

I could not imagine that. 

1  

00:21:14

Oh my goodness. 

0  

00:21:16

Yeah. And I mean, and then to, to be Donald standing on the side of the road, just like doing his daily chores and then, oh, Hey, 

1  

00:21:25

I need to run. Yeah. Oh wait, he's too close. Guess I'm going to try to get backs and Hey, hope I'm up. Wow. How old was he? Do we know how old he was? 

0  

00:21:38

He was young. He was living at home still at the time. So it's likely that he was younger probably in his teens, I think is what I was just, Ooh, 

1  

00:21:44

That's scary. 

0  

00:21:46

So researcher, Roger Larson said, quote, James McClain was described as a drunken Scottish immigrant who acts to death, a fellow squatter and an argument. And then a second man who ran to the victims aid, the area was comprised of two distinct Scot immigrant societies considered either illegal or illegal land owners. Certain property had been purchased outright by the newly arrived. Scott faction known as the Inverness group, which is the Highlands of Northeast Scotland while the other Scott immigrant society known as the Perth Shire group county Perth, char in central Scotland had arrived in settled sometime earlier on the lands known as donation lands. 

0  

00:22:36

So 

1  

00:22:37

I've been to both places by the way. 

0  

00:22:39

Aren't you just fancy. 

1  

00:22:42

They're beautiful. 

0  

00:22:46

As soon as the town was made aware of the TAC judge, Ezra Platt rounded up the militia to hunt McClain down. I know we discussed a militia in our Parrington episode, which came out today kind of how Burrington was ahead of the militia in that area. So we're going to dive deeper into what a militia actually is. And yeah, I'll have some, I'll have some disclaimers in a little while, but okay. As defined by Wikipedia, a militia is generally an army or some other fighting organization of non-professional soldiers, citizens of a country or subjects of a state who may perform military service during a time of need, as opposed to a professional or regular full-time military personnel, essentially self appointed citizen soldiers, right. 

1  

00:23:46

And they bring whatever weapons that may have. 

0  

00:23:51

Yeah. So many times a militia is called in when there's a need to protect community beyond the reach of the police. At this time, each state had maintained a militia differently and certain areas had a larger presence of a militia than others. It also wasn't uncommon for them to back up the military in fighting and to quote, conduct or irregular warfare basically can go ahead and fight outside the confines of the law that was in this time. 

0  

00:24:33

I'm just going to go ahead and say that in the colonial airy era, in the colonial era, every abled bodied man of a certain age was required to be a member of the militia. The militia act of 1903, almost a hundred years after this case happened is still used today. To describe the two types of classes of militia in the United States today, the first being the organized militia, this includes state defense forces, the national guard and the Naval militia. So the national guard is actually a militia by definition. 

0  

00:25:15

The second is the unorganized militia. This would be the reserve militia, which can be formed by a group of any able body men between the ages of 17 and 45, who are not members of the state defense forces, national guard or Naval militia. 

1  

00:25:35

Interesting. Yes. I always think of the Patriot when I think of a militia. Well, because he was the leader of the militia. He was a good movie. So 

0  

00:25:46

This is where my disclaimer is going to come in. All right, four, I began, I want to make it immensely clear that these descriptions are solely based off of my research and I am not accusing or attacking any organization, any missed up any misstep or false information I say is solely just a research fault of my own and not a representation of these organizations in and of themselves. 

1  

00:26:21

So that was a let the record show. 

0  

00:26:25

Yes, you'll see why. In 2016, the Southern poverty law center or the SPLC identified a total of 165 armed militia groups within the United States. This was in twenty sixteen hundred and sixty five as of 2020. There are four groups who have national presence versus a state wide presence that a majority of the militia are known for. I'm going to say a word in a moment. If you do not want your child to hear this word skip forward about 15 seconds, is it or that outline? 

0  

00:27:05

Yep. So where that you don't like to? I don't not like it. So here we go. These four groups are the constitutional sheriffs and peace officers association, the oath keepers, the three percenters and the not fucking around coalition or the NFA. See? So, and I'll refer to them for the rest of the time as the NFIC. A lot of these militias are synonymous with far right beliefs. This is wrong. 

0  

00:27:46

And also a little right, in some instances. So the constitutional Sheriff's and peace officer's association is comprised of local police officials in the United States whose core beliefs are that the federal and state government authorities are sub par to local authority. They believe that sheriffs have the highest governmental authority and hold the power to disregard laws. They deem unconstitutional. The oath keepers are known as a quote American far, right anti-government militia organization. This group is comprised of current and former military police and first responders who pledge to uphold the oath. 

0  

00:28:29

All military and police take to quote, defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. It said that they encourage their members to disobeyed orders that are believed to be a violation of the us constitution. The three percenters, they are actually American and Canadian, but they are far right. And, and they are an anti-government militia movement. They are strong advocates for gun ownership, rights and resistant to the us federal government. The name three percenters comes from the claim, quote, the active forces in the field against the Kings tyranny, never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. 

0  

00:29:19

The Canadian portion of the group was created by a former Neo Nazi and the Quebec government considers it quote the most dangerous extremist group in Canada, a former Neo Nazi in CU yes in Canada this year, February 21st to 2021, the leadership of the three percenters dissolved the American group due to the storming of the United States Capitol. And they condemned the violence. And it was just last month in June of 20 21, 6 men who were part of the group were indicted for conspiracy and Canada officially declared the group, a terrorist entity. 

0  

00:30:08

Now the last group or the not around coalition, the NFIC. So some people in the area might remember kind of last year when there was a group of, nah, it is a group comprised of black nationalists. And this was the group that I think they went to stone mountain last year. It was real big on the news. They were at stone mountain and people were like, they were walking around with guns and blah, blah, blah. And they were going to do this and that, this was that group. However, I don't know the name. Yeah. They couldn't say it on the news. I remember that. 

0  

00:30:50

So this is said to be a black nationalist paramilitary group. They are advocates for black liberation and separatism. It has been described by news outlets as a quote, black militia. Don't love the way they're saying that, but okay. But the, this militia denies any connection or inspiration from the black Panther party or the black lives matter movement. There they say they are not a part of it. So again, all of this is solely based on what I read and the research I did. This is not a full representation of each group. 

0  

00:31:32

And don't come for me in our emails or our direct messages on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook. Thank you. That'll be all because I know that can be polarizing. I know a lot of people have their own opinions on the militia. I have zero opinion. I have. I'm just the facts, man. We're just descriptions. Just like Dragnet, just, just the facts ma'am here. You get that's it. That's all I went off of. This is what I could find. This is what I found. Now, whether those sources were saying it negatively, couldn't tell you just what I know back to the story. Now we know what a militia is. You get the more, you know, with the rainbow eating rainbow different show, different things. 

0  

00:32:14

It came on during that time. Well, but one is a PSA. I know, but I would always see it. When, when I did after-school care in elementary school, we would always watch reading rainbow. But that's the scale. I'm well aware. There's your segway from militias to our murder story. You're welcome. 

1  

00:32:42

But you don't have to take my word for it. 

0  

00:32:45

How about that? Wishbone. Yeah. 

1  

00:32:48

I used to teach her that to my class. 

0  

00:32:50

What's your looks like wishbone. 

1  

00:32:53

He's a little bit bigger than us. I said it. 

0  

00:32:56

I said, how dare she said it? Well, it looks like one of the mascots is going to be taking over the co-host position. 

1  

00:33:05

What's your loves me. 

0  

00:33:08

So back to our story, judge, Ezra Platt called on the town militia to go after James McClain, it would be three weeks until McLean came out of hiding. 

1  

00:33:22

I hard. Oh good. I better get to know 

0  

00:33:30

The night of the crime McClain hid and a hollow log until daylight. He alluded search parties and survived off of the food that his mother was secretly leaving for him in different areas. 

1  

00:33:46

Wait a minute. Who 

0  

00:33:47

Was hiding? McLean. Okay. 

1  

00:33:51

So his mother was there. 

0  

00:33:53

His mother was taking food kind of to the edge of the woods where she thought he was and taking him food. 

1  

00:34:00

Okay. Cause I, for a second there, I got confused that it was the boy that had 

0  

00:34:04

No, 

1  

00:34:05

No, no, no. That's Don. Yeah. Cause I said his mother, because for some reason I was just thinking that he was like, Hmm, 

0  

00:34:11

No. Yeah. So James McClain, the murderer, his mother was kind of coming. 

1  

00:34:16

I didn't picture him as having his mother with him. Well, when you said that he, he was in a hollow tree, it made me think of enchanted 

0  

00:34:27

Perhaps. Oh yeah. 

1  

00:34:31

Continue. 

0  

00:34:34

Sorry. 

1  

00:34:36

I'm on cold medicine. Yes. 

0  

00:34:40

McLean slept in logs around the area each night and a large reward was offered for his capture, whether he was dead or alive. McClain finally exited the woods and went to a Tavern in Canandaigua. It does not look like his said just I had to make sure that that was correct. So this Canandaigua is the Tavern, the town in which Tavern, then he went to, he took a spot at the bar and quickly noticed the wanted poster at the end of it, the land lady noticed him nervously, glancing back and forth to the poster. And she recognized him based on his description from the officials. 

1  

00:35:21

Yeah. Not a good idea to keep looking at the wanted poster that's describing yourself. 

0  

00:35:26

Yeah. And it was also said that Maclean's fingertips went past his knees when his arms were at his side. Oh, he was kind of a fish. He was a very distinct looking man. Yeah. McLean was quickly arrested and then taken to the jail and Batavia the investigation into William William. His murder began once McClain was in custody. McClain was only charged with the murder of, or, and not for the murder of MacLaughlin. There was some discussion as to whether, or had actually killed Mick Loughlin or if McClain did. 

0  

00:36:08

So they kind of went off of, we know for sure he killed, or we're not a hundred percent sure if he killed MacLaughlin or could have done that to begin with and then McClain could have killed or because he killed MacLaughlin. So they didn't really know. Cause there were three men at the time and it seemed like the son, Donald didn't really, he kind of caught it on the tail end and he wasn't, he just saw from what I can understand, he only saw the very last part. So he, he knew for sure, he knew for sure two men were on the ground dead. There was an ax, that's it? Yeah. And that this man was coming towards him with setbacks. Yes. That's all that he was really able to say. 

0  

00:36:51

And his mom was kind of the same way. They didn't really know what was going on and kind of until all the commissions see all the action. Right. So justice was on the side of the murdered men and McClain was tried convicted and sentenced to death almost instantly. So keeping behind by the neck until dead. Yes. So the murder happened in March and James McClain was hanged on August 28th, 1807 by sheriff Benjamin Barton. It was the first public execution in Genesee county. 

0  

00:37:33

The Genesee county website states quote a great crowd from all parts of the county attended the public execution on August 28th, 1807. Of course they did. It was reported in the newspapers that when the weight fell, the rope broke and McClain fell to the ground. He soon recovered from the shock and rising to his feet, expressed a strong desire not to be hung again. Some insisted that one hanging was a fulfillment of the law, others however thought differently and informed McLean that quote, as he had killed two men, he ought to be hung twice. 

0  

00:38:23

There you go. So the county clerk was dispatched by the sheriff for a new rope. He soon returned with a quote trace rope, which I guess is another one sufficiently strong. And after a considerable delay, the miserable culprit was again, mounted upon the scaffold and launched into Aternity 

1  

00:38:50

Launched into eternity. 

0  

00:38:51

Yes, that was from the newspaper. 

1  

00:38:54

When I was going to ask was the first drug. I mean, because he sounds like he was a pretty big man. So maybe the rope wasn't strong enough. 

0  

00:39:02

And from what I saw, they said that a trace rope, which it's spelled T R a C E but also Trey and different ways that, you know, in different languages trait can also mean three. So it could be like a three rope rope. Does that make sense? Like three? Yeah. Like a tri like a trot. Yeah. That's kind of what it sounded like to me that it was a much thicker, more substantial rope. Okay. Yeah. So a further note, William keys was paid $8 and 25 cents by the county supervisors for building the gallows and eight gallons of Brandy were supplied to the guards. 

0  

00:39:51

I mean it's 

1  

00:39:52

A lot. Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty good bit. How many guards were there? 

0  

00:40:00

They didn't say so or 

1  

00:40:02

Eight guards and they each got a gallon, 

0  

00:40:04

Still a lot of 

1  

00:40:05

Brandy. I mean, I'm saying that 

0  

00:40:07

I had enough Brandy to remember you hung someone, but you know, so there we go. Although McClain was not tried for McLaughlins murder, the McLaughlin family did have some satisfaction that the second hanging was really meant for MacLaughlin. Several sources, like to note that McClain was actually the uncle of Alexander McLean, who was a member of the police force for many years in that county. And he actually served as the police chief of Rochester at one time after this. So McClain's yeah. Cool. McClain was related to someone who was a part of the part of the police force 

1  

00:40:50

And it didn't have any bearing on it. That's that's 

0  

00:40:54

And I think, I honestly think that a lot of the reason that it didn't have bearing is because he ran and he was gone for so long. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's kinda like, oh, well you're guilty. He ran. Yeah. I mean, you ran immediately so well, 

1  

00:41:07

But also, I mean, that could kind of, the name could taint if you're in the same area, you know, I mean, unfortunately that if you're in the same area and that's why a lot of people would, especially in that Tom would leave where they grew up and start a new life somewhere else where there that name wasn't known because you know, so was hinged on a family name. Exactly. It was such a big thing. You have family honor. 

0  

00:41:39

Well, that's how the Hatfields and McCoys were. So I know some people who at one time they are, are descendants of the McCoy family. But if you look at their name, their name is not McCoy. So at that time you could literally move from one side of the state to the other drop the MC off of your name. And you were considered coy. You were not, you were not McCoy anymore. 

1  

00:42:05

I have a friend that I went to school with who was a Hatfield. How funny? 

0  

00:42:10

That is funny. That's an interesting story. We might cover that once we get into that time period, but that would have to be a multi-part or probably be a two-parter cause it's, it's a lot, there's a lot that goes along with it. And there was a, I want to say it was a history channel, three part series, four part series on them that came out several years ago. Anyways, it was very good. So there's no record as to where McLean's final resting place is located. However, it's assumed that he was buried in the Batavia cemetery on harvester avenue. He wasn't EAs 

1  

00:42:44

For autopsies or 

0  

00:42:45

Anything. Aiden say that he was used for an autopsy. No. Okay. 

1  

00:42:49

I was just curious guys. 

0  

00:42:51

That's just the Irish that they hate that much, but you know, whatever, just me, just me, my Irish roots being bitter I'm bitter. So the reason that they think that it's in Batavia is because the first burial in that cemetery was an 1806. So it was right around that time. It would make sense that he would be there. And a lot of times, a lot of graves went on marked in certain areas for one reason, 

1  

00:43:20

To pay for a headstone and say, exactly, 

0  

00:43:22

You know, you had to pay for a headstone. And you know, I, I wonder if there that'd be interesting. I wonder if there were any laws that said, like, if you were a murderer, you couldn't have a headstone. 

1  

00:43:34

Well, and it's hollowed ground. And that was what I was going to say. You know, sometimes that was a punishment to you would be on an, in an unmarked Bray. Mm 

0  

00:43:44

Well, cause with Parrington they buried them in a hole across the street, right? Yeah. That's what they said. So, I mean, yeah, it was very much a possibility of that. From what I could find, the old McColl homestead is now considered haunted by some and superstitious people think that the Scotsmen come back each spring and re-enact the murder themselves 

1  

00:44:14

Not cool. However, 

0  

00:44:16

Upon further research, I did not find any information saying that the McColl homestead was haunted. It would have joined me immensely to find something that it was haunted, but there are different locations in Genesee county that are haunted or are said to be haunted. But, you know, I did find some hope and that there is a farm there. And I didn't know some found some hope that there is a name of a form in the area that might have been changed. The name might've been changed from the McColl farm to another family farm, if they would have bought it because there is a farm in the area that said to be haunted, but I don't know if the McColl family, if that was part of their homestead or not, 

1  

00:45:03

That is not my cup of tea 

0  

00:45:05

Now. And then I had told you, I had a nice fun fact 

1  

00:45:08

For you, ah, 

0  

00:45:09

Less than fair regarding public executions in New York state 

1  

00:45:13

At the time, lay it all Ms. System. Would you like to 

0  

00:45:16

Take a guess? 

1  

00:45:18

It didn't have to do with numbers? No, 

0  

00:45:21

No. Math. Would you like to take a guess at who was one of the representatives that had a majority input on public executions at this time? 

1  

00:45:38

Should I know this person, 

0  

00:45:40

You know the name? Well, 

1  

00:45:43

What year was it? 

0  

00:45:44

This was, well, this was 1807. So, but, but it was around and before this time, well, and the, the, it kind of 1800 was around the time when they came up with these final execution laws. 

1  

00:46:02

Skylar, I figured it was, it was a Hamilton knee. Yes. 

0  

00:46:10

So he, he had a say and the public executions in New York at that time, I said, state representative. 

1  

00:46:23

Well, I mean, it could have been Burr because Skylar seat was up for grabs. So 

0  

00:46:27

I tape it, I get it. But I 

1  

00:46:30

Mean, I almost said burb then I thought, no, I had to really think, 

0  

00:46:37

Oh yeah. So that's fun. And you know, that's, that is the official story of James McClain, the man who was hanged twice. So now Leah knows the answer to why you have to hang a man till death. 

1  

00:46:50

I mean, cause he could have just set up, didn't take. 

0  

00:46:54

And a lot of those people said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He was sentenced to be hanged once 

1  

00:47:01

And it didn't work. So Hey, God must admit for him to not be hanging. So 

0  

00:47:06

I guess that makes more sense as to why they would say you have to be hanged to death. 

1  

00:47:10

Yeah. I may fall 

0  

00:47:12

Back to God. Nope. Not happen. Not in this area. So what do we think? 

1  

00:47:18

There's a good argument for that though. I mean, you know, for, for both sides, like, Hey, you know, we went through the whole deal. We did it all didn't take. So I mean, technically it's been carried out 

0  

00:47:32

Technically by the law 

1  

00:47:34

Dummy to the letter to 

0  

00:47:36

Cliff. The sentencing did not say 

1  

00:47:40

Exactly. So, I mean, there you go. There's that technicality. So I mean, I totally get it. There's all these, I mean, you know, we've worked in insurance and there are all kinds of technicalities that you can, you know, does it fulfill this specific, not Pacific because that's an ocean. Does it fulfill this specific verbiage that is in the policy? You know, not well 

0  

00:48:07

With contracts and with law and with anything like that, 

1  

00:48:11

What is the specific verbiage? Which 

0  

00:48:13

You've got to be guys be very careful with what you're signing. I, I say this because my boyfriend got a new job recently and really excited for him. It's really good, good stuff. 

1  

00:48:28

Very good stuff. So 

0  

00:48:29

He, he told me, he was like, God, they've sent me so much paperwork to sign. And he was saying stuff here and there about certain things. And I said, well, it should have been in the stuff that you signed. Well, what did he say? He's like, I didn't read it. I was 

1  

00:48:41

Like, 

0  

00:48:42

You have to read it. You have to read what you're signing. Just sign. You're going to sign away your soul. You don't know. It's like when people always say like, oh, well I didn't say that apple could do that with my iPhone. And it's like, but did you read the terms and conditions? Did you 

1  

00:49:01

Agree? 

0  

00:49:02

Yeah. Did you say that? I agree. Just see you didn't have to read it, which I'm guilty of. I'm well aware of that, but you know, certain things, when they come along, you got to be real careful about the verbiage and the wording of things that happen. So there's a certain term, I believe it's called it's caveat, M Tor, which is a buyer beware. So Alabama, which we are from as y'all know hi, if you can't tell you don't sound like 

1  

00:49:26

It at all, 

0  

00:49:29

Alabama is considered a buyer, beware state and real estate. And essentially what that means is that as a buyer, it is your job 

1  

00:49:38

Responsibilities. It is your 

0  

00:49:40

Responsibility to do all the research before you buy 

1  

00:49:44

This home. It's somebody's done this whole. Yes. 

0  

00:49:47

And in the state of Alabama, in the state of Alabama, you are not required to disclose if anyone has been murdered or died in the home, unless you are specifically asked by the buyer of the home, the seller does not have to disclose this information sometime it can not be a good thing. My mom, you know, I've told you all before my mom works in the real estate industry and I'm in a house that we lived in. When I was in high school, there was a man, unfortunately down the road who decided to end his life on his own. 

0  

00:50:27

And the house went up for sale. Not long after that. And I asked him, I remember to go and buy the house. And we saw a lot of construction crews there in and out for free. No, a little while. And it was probably six months after that the house went on the market. And I remember looking at my mom and I was like, mom, isn't it. Isn't that the house like that. Cause it was right near us. Like just, just down a block or so from us. And I remember one of my mom's friends, I think I'm pretty sure it was one of her friends had mentioned something about going to show the house. And my mom was like, you know what happened in the kitchen? Right? 

0  

00:51:08

Because in that that's, my mom is also my mom's been in the industry for a very, very long time. And she has also helped some people find houses that are of other religious backgrounds than we are. I'm not going to say specifics. Cause I don't exactly know what they were. They could have been Muslim. It could have been Hindu could have been somewhere in that, that realm. I'm not sure. I'm not sure which one it was. So I don't want to say, but they were very, but they were very specific about the type of home that they wanted. It needed to face a certain direction. It had to have, like, there were so many different things about the house that had to perfectly fit in order for it to be a home for them. 

0  

00:51:56

And, and you know, some people might think that that's odd, but because of their background and because of their religion, that's what they were looking for. So it report it to them. Right. So what's important when looking into laws and looking into what you're reading, what you're signing. And what you're saying is that if you have someone like that, who is, you know, saying my mom's position and they don't want to live in a house where anyone has even died, whether natural causes or unnatural, you know, and you, you know that about your client, it's your responsibility to ask, has this happened? And you know, I'm not gonna lie. I knew this law. 

0  

00:52:36

So obviously, so when I bought the nice little house that I'm in now, the woman previously who owned this home, she did pass away. And in this home, no, I asked because, and it wasn't in a bad way, but I knew that she had fallen and she was elderly. I knew that she had fallen and I believe she liked, she hurt herself in some way, very severely and ended up having to be in assisted living for a time. And I think she died pretty soon after. I don't think it was, you know, we didn't ask real big specifics. Cause the grandchildren were the ones that were selling the house and yeah, they were very sweet though. 

0  

00:53:19

It was very, very sweet family. And she actually, my house is kind of newer. It's probably, she 

1  

00:53:25

Could've lived here long. 

0  

00:53:27

This house is 20 years old now. And yeah, it doesn't seem like it, even when the inspector came and inspected the home, he was like, I would think that this house was brand new. Yeah. But no, it was, it was, she took very good care of it. And so did the children and, but she lived in it ever since, you know, it was first built. And so I was like, she's got some strong connection to that house. Okay. It's, she's been there a hot minute. She she's still going to be hanging around. Like I just need to know if I have a guest or not like, how do I need to approach this? Because you know, being Betty could be real cool. 

0  

00:54:10

That was her name was Ms. Betty. So me and Betty could be real cool or we could not, I just need to know how this all happens a little while. And, but it's, I mean, that is something you've gotta be aware of those things. You, in any state, you need to be aware of what those laws are. Well, we know someone else who did purchase a home that a tragic situation happened in and they did not know until the day they closed on their house and it was too late and it was very tragic situation. And so it's, it's one of those things of like, be aware, like ask all your questions. 

0  

00:54:50

Like 

1  

00:54:52

We're only the third owners of, of our home. Our house was built the same year that we were born. My husband and I are the same age. We're only the third owners of it. 

0  

00:55:03

1950. 

1  

00:55:04

Oh, that's hateful. My parents are that old. That was hateful. Anyway, we, it looks really good 

0  

00:55:13

For her age guys. She's getting 

1  

00:55:15

Really good. Just stop there. Anyway, we do know that the original owners that bought the house, we do know that he did die in our bedroom. 

0  

00:55:30

You haven't seen like a shadow standing in the doorway or anything. No. Stirred up any spirits there. 

1  

00:55:36

But I will say that my husband has a coat rack in the doorway of, we call it his room. It's his, it's his office, computer room. And it's it's Michael's room. He has a coat rack and he, he has like a beanie sitting on top of it with coats. And so I've had to like rearrange those because when I come down the hall, it's across from our bedroom and, and I've stopped a couple of times and looked just because it's like somebody standing there out of the corner of my eye and I've 

0  

00:56:01

Had to return at 10. And then when you looked back, he was gone. 

1  

00:56:03

Now it's just, it's just the coat rack. You don't know. 

0  

00:56:07

But yeah, 

1  

00:56:07

Just saying he passed away in that room. 

0  

00:56:11

Ooh, Ooh. Be aware of these things, guys, 

1  

00:56:17

The family that it's true. You know, I know the family's all good, but 

0  

00:56:21

You know, I mean, when you get into contracts and you get into laws and you get into sentencing and you get into all these things, there are so many specifics as to like, Hey, this, this needs to happen. And that's probably why, like your question that you had asked before, that is probably exactly why they had to make a, a, I don't want to say amendment, but had to make a point to say, you will be hanged to death, like no choice. 

1  

00:56:54

Well, and there's always a reason for all the warning labels on things. There's a reason for those, which, I mean, I'm just saying some of the warning labels, 

0  

00:57:04

Warning labels off the world, sorted out for itself. When I'll look at a chair and I'll look at the bottom of the chair and it says, do not sit on this side. You know what it's like, oh my gosh, what's that guy? Here's your sign. Yeah. Jeff 

1  

00:57:19

Foxworthy, Fox 

0  

00:57:21

Fox. Like that, that's it like you, some of these things it's like, now I will go ahead and put out there. The story that a lot of people like to bring up with that is the McDonald's coffee woman. If you knew the details of what really happened is bad. 

1  

00:57:39

I mean, it was, it was warranted. 

0  

00:57:42

It was third degree 

1  

00:57:43

Gree. And McDonald's had been warned. There was a precedent there. The water was too hot. And so that was kind of like, 

0  

00:57:51

And in, in their, in their minds, what they were saying is people don't drink the coffee immediately. So in their head, it was like, if we make it hotter, by the time they go to drink it, the coffee will still be hot. Right. But they were already given multiple warnings. That that was not okay. And we 

1  

00:58:14

Know she shouldn't have put it in her lap. I mean, well, it, but, 

0  

00:58:17

But, but this was also a time when cup holders were not standard in cars. I mean, there are so it's like, this is one of those things of like, I mean, they had the never be that hot. It should, she had agreed 

1  

00:58:33

To have skin grafts. It was bad, 

0  

00:58:35

Not Erie. And McDonald's is like, here's she? I think she asked them for like $50,000 originally 

1  

00:58:44

For 

0  

00:58:44

Her medical bill. And they were like, no. Yeah. Now, well now I'm, how much do you have to pay guys? I mean, you go 

1  

00:58:51

Learn today. 

0  

00:58:53

So I mean, some instances like, yes, you should know, like there should be a warning on it. Like, Hey, don't turn, the air can upside down or it will turn to ice. Like, but that's always been fun. Anyways. 

1  

00:59:10

What bothers me so much on all of these medicine commercials do not take if allergic to this medication, 

0  

00:59:17

How am I going to no, no. I love I, the side effects list. And then it's like, 

1  

00:59:24

I feel so much better. Or may cause diarrhea, headache from your eyes. I mean, oh, well 

0  

00:59:32

Let's do, do not operate heavy machinery. Such as a car could lead to cancer, lymphoma or death. It's like, 

1  

00:59:41

You'll feel so much better. I'm good. 

0  

00:59:44

I'm a pass. Yeah. But thank you. Thank you for the offer. I just horny. They always get me with warning labels. They always crack me up. And, and it's always funny to see like what warning labels come on. What? Like hand wash only that's that's just an instruction. That's not a warning. It's just something you should probably do. But I can't plus 

1  

01:00:07

The bag's warning, not a toy. Really? It's not a toy. 

0  

01:00:13

I love target. That puts on the side of theirs. What else? You can use it for 

1  

01:00:20

Kite. 

0  

01:00:22

It's like Cat litter. I'm like true. Not wrong. That's so funny. Oh goodness. So yeah. Now we know why you have to be hanged to death. Absolutely. Now we know. So we now have a website guys. You can find all of the ways to follow us and contact us and reach us and send us a pigeon on our website. That was an owl or an animal. We would love to get an owl only if it has my Hogwarts letter. So that website super easy. 

0  

01:01:03

One nation under crime.com. Simple as that, you can, 

1  

01:01:09

But 

0  

01:01:11

You know, one nation under crime, name of the show, one nation under crime.com. You can still follow us on Instagram on Twitter. The only difference is our Twitter is at oh, in UC pod. Facebook. We do have a Facebook page. Now, since last time we spoke, I believe, but we have that. You just search for nation under crime. If you love our podcast, recommend us to everyone. You see, literally everyone you see every day, just yell at them. It's fine. In the 

1  

01:01:41

Grocery store, in the grocery store. Just 

0  

01:01:44

Anybody you walk down the aisle, like be that person that they're like, don't 

1  

01:01:47

Know don't, don't be that person. Don't go down 

0  

01:01:50

The bread house. She's there. She's there. 

1  

01:01:53

Yeah. But to me, like make conversation in the grocery store aisle. I did that today. I brought Kayla a treat because she may have just celebrated a milestone birthday. We won't discuss with one, even though she rags me for being old, whatever conversation with a nice little farming guy behind me. And we, we discussed and I could have told them that I was on my way to record the podcast. I didn't. But anyway, just make conversation and say, Hey, you 

0  

01:02:19

Liked true crime. I've got this podcast for ya. Yeah. So do that always and leave us a review on apple podcasts. I know some people may not listen on apple podcasts. We do actually have several listeners that listen on Spotify and different things like that. But if you do listen on apple podcasts, please, please, please only leave us a five-star review. If it's anything less than five, you may keep it to yourself. We don't need that negativity on our lives. And I don't claim that sort of negativity. So they'll take up four. No, Nope. Five only, only perfection. It's all right. But if you would leave us a comment. Yes. If you do leave us a comment with it as well, that also somehow helps board. 

0  

01:03:03

But with the way that apple podcast works, the more reviews you get and the more, the more visibility your podcast gets and the higher up we show in search results. So, you know, just one of those weird things, we have a Patrion. If you would like to help with the cost of hosting and making the show, you can find us there. If you have any questions, anything go to our website. All of our info is there. You can actually send us like you can leave us all of our info. Some things need to be private. A lot, a lot of it's there. You don't know what I put about you on there. You can actually, there's like a, a submission thing that you can fill out on there and ask us questions. 

0  

01:03:46

You can leave us a voicemail on our website. Like you can leave us a voicemail. So just let it be nice. I'm very sensitive, even though I don't act like it. Thank you guys for listening to another week of one nation under crime, we are heading into the double digits. This is so exciting. Very exciting. We will see you here. Same time, different crime next week. And remember there isn't always Liberty and justice for all. We will see you guys next week.