Sept. 27, 2021

1818: America's First Murder For Hire Case


What do you get when you cross a last will and testament, profitable land, and three men fighting over it? One man dead, four sentenced to death, and America's first murder for hire case.   

This week the ONUC gals discuss the murder for hire plot against Richard Jennings, why everyone should watch Designing Women, and how many men it takes to 'take out' one man.

Trigger Warning Level: Low

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Sources: Albert Wisner Library and Chronicle Newspaper

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Transcript

You are listening to one nation under crime, a chronological true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case from each year, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah and we're in the year 18, 18. This week got an interesting case. Leah got to see the documents of which I got to read for this case. It was rough. I'm glad I have my job pieces of paper missing just like half of a page, like scraps, dude, water stains all over it. Like, am I reading this side? Oh, Nope. That words backwards. 

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00:00:41

So that's the other side of the thing. It was rough. It was, it was rough, but it's a good one. So, and we are up to episode 20. Now we are out of the teens finally. So that's exciting. I think we don't really have too much stuff up at the top this week, other than go to apple podcast and rate us please. And thank you. Five stars. Only. Anything else keep to yourself? It is it's good to be calming. And if you much like all of our Southern grandmothers and mothers said, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all. 

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00:01:21

I mean, I think that's pretty self-explanatory Claire is recording with us today and she agrees only other thing. We do have an update from our last episode. Yes. For any of those of you who are on the edge of your seats, one of our family members has now been found. Leonard is ho yes. Leonard has found his way back home acting like nothing ever happened. A little goober isn't I rude of him so rude. Like he came home and he was just like snuggle under my arm. Like, Hey mom, what's up? 

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00:02:02

He's like, I've been here the whole time. Like, what's wrong with you? Why, why is your face wet? Like, why are you upset? Quit squeezing me like that. It's a little rude, honestly. Yeah. And then yesterday we had a scare with one of the pod mascots. So one of our, which y'all have seen him as well, Knox one of our live ins over here, he decided he was gonna make her own for it. The other day yesterday, actually we were recording this on the 25th, which this episode actually will come out Monday. So yeah, just a few days ago, a couple of days ago, Friday before this, he decided he was gonna make break for it. 

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00:02:48

And my lovely, lovely boyfriend may or may not have aided and abetted in this crime together. Yes. But he came back. So 

1  

00:03:03

I told her he'd come back at night. He would, he knows where he he's loved. He knows where it gets. 

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00:03:07

His name is Knox for a reason. And those of you who are not big Harry Potter fans, I mean, one Y to that is that is where his name comes from because of Lumos and knocks. And so his name is Knox because he would only come around at night when we thought he was a girl, he was going to be Rosemary because he always rubbed up against my Rosemary Bush. But that didn't happen when we found out that there's 

1  

00:03:36

A couple of things. I just, 

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00:03:38

Those couple of things were missing. But So, you know, I just don't, he didn't, he didn't look like a Rosemary after that. I don't know what changed, but so yeah, we, it would be nice if all of the animals would stay where they're supposed to stay, come home. 

1  

00:03:59

We feed you. We give you a main, give you a warm, dry place to stay. Just let us love you. 

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00:04:05

Great. And the thing is to all of our critters, all of them are rescue pets, all of them. Yes. And we rescued you and now you have the audacity and the goal to try and get away. Yes, no, it's, it's rude. Honestly. It's fine. It's fine. We're not bitter. Nope, everything's fine. So we will go ahead and get into this week's case now that we've updated, y'all on all the critters and now that are missing runaways, that calm, he was guys, he was gone for like a week and a half 

1  

00:04:44

Days, 11 days. And let me tell you the craziest thing. We put 

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00:04:49

Out a trap and trap them. Y'all 

1  

00:04:51

We did. We did. I live in a very rural area and a lady that would, I guess be too, I guess you'd say two blocks away lives in a field. And they Bush hogged this field 

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00:05:04

For those of you who do not live here. That just means that the grass was really, really, really tall. And they cut the grass with some of our people may not know what Bush hogging actually. Yeah, 

1  

00:05:14

They had, they don't use the like it's, it's a field. And so yes, they had to use a tractor to cut all of the hay and very thick brush that grew in the field. And it was the first time they had cut it since Leonard had gone missing and they, they saw him in the field, they had a lake in the field. So that's where he had been since we've lost him. And so we went and called him. He did not appear. And so my sister had the great idea. Well, why don't we set a trap for him? And so my daddy being the good old country boy that he is, and he has a little bit of everything that he has obtained in his years, he had a Coon trap, a wrecking trap. 

1  

00:06:00

And so we set it out and we caught a Leonard in our Coon track. And so yes, that's how we caught him. And, 

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00:06:12

And Jimmy, I act like he he's like, I was not gone long guys where he also have that hearing. 

1  

00:06:19

Hi, I was, I got caught in a little metal cage, which was party foul, by the way. I'm not cool, but Hey, I'm home guys like, everything's cool. 

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00:06:31

If anybody has any ideas on a semi inexpensively GPS in dogs, literally I know cause she needs to come up with a GPS system for her dog. 

1  

00:06:42

I have our, our coworker has given me a really good idea. We've bought harnesses for the boys there they're their toy poodle. So they're tiny, they're five pounds. So I'm a thought harnesses for them and purchasing wooden spoons. We're just going to tie those to their harnesses and we put them outside and then we'll be able to escape the fence. So we're good. 

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00:07:05

Good gracious these animals. So we'll get onto this week's case. I suppose after that, we'll, we'll switch to a lighter note of the United States first murder for hire case. 

1  

00:07:22

That's not lighter. 

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00:07:24

I mean, it depends on who you are. So our sources for this week, we have the Albert Weisner library, which is where I read our wonderful document of, I don't know what it went. Must've gone through a hurricane and then the chronic blender precious, or then the Chronicle newspaper. Those are really the most reliable sources that I use. The Albert Weisner library, the document that was there, it was like 133 pages long. So that was a lot of information to Wade through to get that. And we'll get on to the events that have gone on in 1818 on March 25th, Andrew Jackson led an army into Spanish Florida during the first Seminole war, April 4th, the Congress adopted the flag of the United States as having 13 red and white stripes and one star for each state, which 13 red and white stripes, 13 colonies, for those who aren't aware. 

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00:08:33

And then there was one star for each state, which at the time there were 20 states and it had room for additional stars to be added each time a state was added to the union, which now gives you the American flag that we have today. Fun fact, it is highly debated as to whether Betsy Ross actually made the first flying. It's a long story to get into, but yes, it is very highly debated as to whether she actually made it. She was the main flag maker in that area at the time, but she might not have been the one that actually made it. 

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00:09:17

It might have just been an easier story to go with that. Interesting. I have heard that April 7th Brooks brothers, who a lot of people might still, you might recognize the names day. It is the oldest men's clothing ear in the United States. It opens its first store in the Northeast corner of Katherine and cherry streets in New York city or the south street Seaport later stood, which is a historical district in Manhattan today. And you will still see Brooks brothers commercials on TV. They are still accompany today. So that was interesting. They started in Manhattan in 18, 18, April 14th, the United States coast survey operations were suspended until August of 1832. 

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00:10:07

And so this was the company that well, really the division of the United States government that went up and down the coast and essentially created the map of America because they were the one that did all the coasts surveys to see exactly where everything was. So they were suspended until 1832, July 11th. The bank of the United States reversed its policy of expanding credit and sent notices to its borrows nationwide demanding repayment immediately of all balances due because of this. So many people defaulted on their loans that it actually triggered the panic of 18. 

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00:10:53

19. Interesting. So July 15th, president James Monroe convenes, a cabinet meeting, yes, a cabinet meeting to discuss Andrew Jackson's unauthorized invasion of Spanish, Florida. And if it should be disavowed by the white house, secretary of state, John Quincy, Adams persuaded Monroe that Jack persuaded Monroe that Jack do. This is tongue tire persuaded. Monroe that Jackson's actions were justifiable in invading Spanish, Florida. Did they wrap it? 

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00:11:32

July 16th? The Daniel Webster debate society of Phillips Exeter academy was founded as the golden branch literary society, making it the oldest surviving secondary school literary society in the United States. What is the oldest mouthful? I didn't look it up. No, it is the oldest plate. You said it makes it the oldest surviving secondary school literary, sorry, I've been sick this week. So this is probably going to be a really fun episode. Just I'm going to put it out there. So July 31st, the first newspaper in Cleveland, Ohio was published by Andrew Logan called the Cleveland is debt and commercial register. 

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00:12:17

August 1st at the top of graphical bureau of the us department of war was founded. It consisted only of officers who were hand-picked from west point academy and was used for mapping in the design and construction of federal civil works such as lighthouses and other coastal fortifications and navigational routes got a lot of big mouthful names. This week, October 6th, shad rack bond was not name isn't in a fund name. He was inaugurated as the first governor of Illinois, October 18th, Andrew Jackson, and Isaac Shelby negotiated the treaty of Tuscaloosa for the purchase of land that is now Western of Tennessee and Southwest to Kentucky from the Chickasaw nation. 

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00:13:04

It was later deemed the Jackson purchase. Then let's see October 20th promise for getting done. This is just a big year for events. Guys sounds like it. The treaty of 18 names, the treaty of 1818 between the us and the United Kingdom established the north boundary of the United States as the 49th parallel from the lake of the woods to the Rocky mountains and also created the Northwest angle. So this is what actually created the exact boundary for Canada. Then December 3rd, Illinois was officially admitted as the 21st United States and in 1818. 

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00:13:51

Well, I was going to say, you should know this, but you weren't an English major, no was not. Or childhood education for early childhood and elementary for our English majors out there y'all should know of a very important work that came out in 1818. Mary Shelley's first edition of Frankenstein was published anonymously because she was a girl. Yes. The second edition in 1823 is what revealed that Mary was the author and Mary Shelley was actually friends with, they would have these, which I remember this from school, they would have these like literary. She was filled with lots of really famous authors at the time, like minds of the test. 

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00:14:35

It was, it was crazy. They would do a, what do they call it? Like artists' retreats where authors would go and they would write. And that's all they would do for like days. She was on one of those when she wrote Frankenstein, Frankenstein is the doctor not the monster anyways, just, and actually that was the, the clue when I do a crossword puzzle every day. And that was the clue in one of the crossword puzzles that I did like really, I think yesterday, not the year. Interesting. Let's see our births in 18, 18, February 14th. This is actually a self Valentine status. 

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00:15:15

This is actually a self adopted date because they don't know the exact date, but Frederick Douglas, he was a social reformer, abolitionist writer and orator. A lot of people know him. He's pretty famous in the United States. But February 14th is when his self adopted birth date was. And he is an Aquarius May 27th, Amelia bloomer and American women rights and temperance advocates was born. She did not create the bloomers cath that you may think of, but somehow her name became synonymous with them because of clothing reform in the United States, she is the first woman to own operate and edit a newspaper specifically for women. 

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00:16:06

Good for her. She's a Gemini August 13th, Lucy stone was born. She was an advocate and organizer promoting rights for women. She is the first woman from Massachusetts to earn a college degree. And she is widely known for not taking her husband's last name. Ooh, scandal less. Yes. She's a Leo, which makes sense that she wouldn't want to take someone else's last name. If any of Malia's are out there. I see you, Leos are very independent and sometimes can be very, very y'all already know. Cause you're Leo's you're very hard-headed so makes sense. 

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00:16:52

I used to be married to a Leo, so I get it. September 12th, Richard Jordan Gatling was born. He is the American inventor known for the yes. He is the inventor of the Gatling gun, which is considered the first successful machine gun. He was a Virgo like Liam, November 11th, James Renwick Jr. Was born. He is the architect called one of the most successful American architects of all time. Tommy Simeon, James Renwick. Jr. When I tell you what he's done, you'll you'll know who he is. 

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00:17:33

The Smithsonian institution building in DC, St. Patrick's cathedral in New York city. Yes. The Renwick gallery in DC, the main building of Vassar college in Poughkeepsie, New York. Wow. And the municipal courthouse in Fredericksburg, Virginia. Those are some of his most famous buildings. St. Patrick's cathedral is just BEPS, breathtaking, gorgeous. He's a Scorpio. Let's see. So let's move on to our deaths of this year. May 10th. Paul Revere. 

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00:18:14

Oh, listen. My children shall hear the midnight ride of Paul Revere. He is an American smell, American silver Smith engraver, early industrialists and Patriot and the American revolution. And like we just said, he's a famous, famous person in American history. He is known for warning Bostonian's that the British were coming and he is a mortalized in the ballad by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. That was what we just said that he may really have not been the person that told them there's debate. But it's true. It's still people still know one if by land two, if I see that's right, but if you watch national treasurer, oh, such a good scene in national treasure, there's a podcast out there. 

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00:19:03

I can't remember the name of it right now, but they pick apart the national treasure movies. I know there should be anyways. I've said it too many times, but there should be another one. So he needs to have his day. Love Riley, August 31st. I can't speak today. August 31st, Arthur St. Claire died. He was the president of the continental Congress. October 5th, Nancy Lincoln died. She was the mother of Abraham Lincoln and October 28th, Abigail Adams died. 

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00:19:47

She was the first woman to have served as both the first and second lady of the United States. Interesting. So we'll get on to our story and history of location this week, December 21st of 18, 18, Richard Jennings was murdered in America's first murder for hire case in Sugarloaf, New York, Sugarloaf Sugarloaf. We are the finest family from Sugarloaf. I don't know why, but that's what I think of. I mean, I am sorry. I come from the Sugarloaf sugar loaves of New York. 

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00:20:27

How dare you reminds me of, oh gosh, what was it? And that is the night that the lights went out in Georgia. You don't know designing women. That was one of the best shows I would always just Sugarbaker love her. That's that's why it reminds me of that. Julia Sugarbaker from Sugarloaf New York. Oh gosh. I would, I know this is real controversial guys. I get it. I would dare say that designing women was better than golden girls. 

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00:21:03

Oh, a hundred percent. And I loved it more than golden girls 

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00:21:06

Apps designing women. Of course I 

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00:21:08

Identified better with them too, because I'm a Southern woman. Well, 

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00:21:13

I mean, well, golden girls were in Miami. Yeah. 

1  

00:21:17

But I mean, they weren't all Southern women. 

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00:21:19

Right. It was just signing. Women was such. 

1  

00:21:23

And I mean, Anthony, which is unfortunate incarceration. I mean, 

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00:21:27

Okay. Anthony was, he was the best it was. Oh. 

1  

00:21:30

And they, and when I put my dogs up at night, I talk about their incarceration. I think about him every, tell him 

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00:21:36

Such a good show. And 

1  

00:21:40

Yeah, I'm teaching the dogs because they've been in a crate their entire life. So they have to be incarcerated. So we talk about there in Fort an unfortunate incarcerations. And I get that lawn from designing women because Anthony talks about his unfortunate incarceration because he was, he was an accessory to a crime. He didn't know sensory. 

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00:21:58

He was It's so funny. Yes. If you've never seen designing with, 

1  

00:22:04

You can watch it on Hulu. It was 

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00:22:06

Just such a good show. 

1  

00:22:08

And I love Suzanne. Oh my gosh. She was so bad. And she was like, she was all of the Southern jokes. Like she, she was all of the Southern jokes racked into a wooden 

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00:22:19

This way. So many people know who the golden girls are. If you took blanche Devereaux, and you made a show of blanche, Devereaux and her friends that would be designing women. Yeah. 

1  

00:22:33

I mean, because 

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00:22:34

They're all the same, like just Southern, you know? Yes. Charlene. 

1  

00:22:39

It would be, Charlene would be bros. Blanche is Suzanne. 

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00:22:48

I loved Charlene. Charlene was my favorite 

1  

00:22:53

<inaudible> no, no, no, no. Mary Mary Jo was my favorite. I could see that, but I love, I wanted to be Julie 

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00:23:00

Charlene, Charlene just had like those one liners. Get you anyways. The only to watch 

1  

00:23:07

It, let me talk to you about it. You need 

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00:23:08

To watch it if you've never watched it, just go watch it. It's so, so good. It's called designing women. But yes, that's what I think of. So anyways, back to Sugarloaf, New York Sugarloaf, Sugarloaf, I'm 

1  

00:23:20

Sure they don't talk like that. 

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00:23:21

No, they don't not New York. I don't even know. I don't know how they would say it in New York, but it is a quote mix use Hamlet. Apparently I'm in orange county, New York. It is located in the town of Chester and is within view of Sugarloaf mountain. The Sugarloaf Hamlet was founded in 1749 as a way point along King's highway. So it's kinda like in our case with Merryweather, where he stopped in that town to stay for the night, it was kind of like a throwaway on his, on his way through, this is kind of one of those, but, but much bigger in this area than that. 

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00:24:08

It was called quote, the community of craftsmen and the businesses supplied food goods and horses to travelers, a local historian, Dr. Richard hole said this about the name of the town, quote. It is still not certain how Sugarloaf acquired its name. The most plausible tale is that Elizabeth Dobbin during her first winter here, circus 1738 gazed up at that huge bald uplifted fault block shrouded in having morning mist. So frosty at the summit yet. So greenish brown at the base and was reminded of the hard lows of sugar. She, and all the colonial Housewives made in their smokey kitchens donut. 

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00:24:54

So apparently that's how the mountain got its name. And then they just named the town after it, by the 19th century, it turned into a bit of a saloon community where the favorite pastime was harness racing. Do you know what harness racing is? I do not. Harness racing is a form of horse racing where the horses race at a specific gate, it's typically a trot. It's not like a run. They try. Yes. They thank you. They pull a two wheeled cart called a sulky or a spider that's occupied by a driver. 

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00:25:37

If you Google harness racing and you see the photo, you'll go, oh, that's what that's called. It's kind of one of those things kinda think of like a chariot but much smaller. And it was only one person behind one horse. So let's see Hamilton tin was born in Sugarloaf on May 5th, 1849, Hamiltonian 10 or <inaudible> Hamiltonian was an American Trotter and a founding sire. So this is a horse. 

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00:26:17

I was really hoping that no person was saddled with that name in his 24 seasons as a stud horse. He produced around 1,335 foals. Well, he was a happy guy. He, he is the founding sire of the standard bred horse breed in the United States. Wow. So he was born here. Hamiltonian has been inducted into the quote immortals category of the harness racing hall of fame, which is located in orange county. The immortals category is a category reserved for people and horses who are deceased for more than three years at the time that they are, you know, nominated, I guess, for their, for their era. 

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00:27:07

During the prohibition era speak easies were established for the enjoyment of jazz age revelers. I wouldn't have, like, I think I was a jazz age reveler I could see it. They were in route to Glenmore mansion estate on pine hill road on Glen mural lake today. Glenmere mansion is a hotel and spa, but it was originally built in 1911 as the Tuscan style home for a local architect and his wife. I think we should take a road trip there and our pin in there. It kind of seems, this was a Gatsby S destination during the 1920s kind of seems like that's what it, like people come out of town and they go to the Gatsby mansion for the weekend to party partied up. 

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00:27:51

Yes. And it is gorgeous. I looked at photos of it. It's very, very pretty today. The Hamlet is an artists community with several living in buildings and barns that have lasted since the 17th century. Wow. Artist's studios are independently owned and operated by the artists themselves with many studios, open to the public for viewing work in progress and purchasing completed pieces. There are some notable people that are from Sugarloaf sugar, low. We have Jay Westerveldt. He is the researcher of habitats associated with endangered species, including the clam shrimp, the bog turtle, and the Northern cricket frog, a cricket from less. 

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00:28:41

It's hard. He coined the term greenwashing. Do you know what greenwashing is? I was very intrigued when I figured out what it was. Whitewashing is both kinds of white washing. Correct? Keep in mind guys. Leo was originally referring to what people do to bricks as white washing until she saw that click in her head. And then she went, oh, and there's another guy. There's this guy. Yes. But so greenwashing is a marketing spin in which companies use the term green to persuade consumers that a product is environmentally friendly. 

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00:29:23

Yep. Yeah. Very, I, I didn't know that that's what that term was, but it makes, it makes perfect sense for any anyone out there who knows this game, you will, you might know this name. Reed duke is from Sugarloaf. He is a professional magic, the gathering player, which guys that's that's it it's an online game anyways. And Jason Boone. He was a professional international basketball player. He played in like Slovenia and places like that. 

1  

00:30:00

Santa Jason Bourne, but he's fictional different, very different. My husband loves him. 

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00:30:07

Let's see. America's first murder for hire case is one that is interesting with many connections, as well as questions. The murder itself took place on a calamity corners. 

1  

00:30:21

My mama used to call me calamity. Jane, trying to still does 

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00:30:25

Columbia corners is the intersection and Sugarloaf where pine hill road and Hamiltonian road intersect. We knew him. Mr. Teed. We are not given another name. That's the only name that I can find sent Mr. <inaudible> Mr. T T de. 

1  

00:30:47

So Mr. Teed, okay. He's Mr. T's grandfather, 

0  

00:30:52

I'm saying, 

1  

00:30:54

Was he mad all the time 

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00:30:56

We were given, we aren't given a first name that I can find for him, but he had a will, which gave his wife Phoebe teed, the 50 acres of quote income producing land, which was known as very valuable until she passed on. And then the land would go to their son, James teed. This will is the cause of all of the events that ensued while Mr. Teed was alive. The estate had been weighed down by debts, which would've eventually put the family in financial ruin. Had it not been for the son, James TEEB James had a major enterprise that over a few years, paid all of the demands and cleared the estate of any liens and debts for him. 

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00:31:42

And because of that, it would only make sense that James would assume the farm would belong to him. Once his father died, right? You were the one that paid to get it all out. You would only assume the farm would then come to you because you paid all those debts. Sure. I get it. Well, that didn't happen upon the death of Mr. T, the son, James and his mother, Phoebe continued to live together in the one house. James was not happy with the situation. And he took on a new quote, expensive branch of business, or that he was not very successful in. They never said what kind of branch business it was, but he was already real mad that the land went to his mother instead of him. 

0  

00:32:22

Well, I mean, 

1  

00:32:24

I was there with his mom. I mean, done. It kind of makes sense 

0  

00:32:30

With his mother being the one that owned the land, she would then be in full control of everything that happens to the land. And so, because it's an income producing plot land, the money within GoTo, her and James is the one that paid for them to still have the land. So, I mean, I get it and I, and I don't get it based off of what happens. I don't get it. One would hope that they would work together, but apparently that's not what was happening, correct. Yes. So let's see James needed to remove himself from this bad business dealing and didn't have many options. 

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00:33:12

So his mother had a brother, his name was Richard Jennings and Richard Jennings stepped in to help. She agreed to release her right to the property. She inherited from her husband. And she could mortgage the property to her brother for his needs. Jennings understood what his sister was looking to do. I'm glad he does because I don't. I think she was kind of looking for a loan to help her son get out of the business that he was failing at. And Jennings decided that he was going to be deceitful and had her sign paperwork without fully explaining to her what she was signing. 

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00:33:59

This paperwork vested the property to Jennings entirely. And he had control over the use and improvement of the property. Blaine was known to be income producing and like most things there seems to be two stories here. The first is the one we just went over in which Janine's persuaded his sister to sign the land over to him in order to help her son. The other story deals with a man named David Daniel Conkling, who was the brother-in-law to James teed and James teed remember was the son. There's a lot of names here, but I, I made sure to make sure all of them are connected together. The account stated that James signed the land over to his brother-in-law Conkling due to the failing business, but the land didn't belong to James to sign over to Conkling. 

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00:34:51

Once James did this, he disappeared for two years in a lawsuit. Conkling officially took possession of the land in Jennings was not satisfied with the decision of the lawsuit after all it was his sister's land. And he thought he had rights over it. Oh, it's a lot guys. So then Jennings countersued to get the land back from Conkling and get it back for his sister. I don't think that it was really to give it back to his sister, but that's what he said in court. Yeah. Yeah. The litigation of being a good big brother, her and yet quote, good. The litigation of who owned the land went on for several years. Keep in mind, neither men legally owned the property. 

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00:35:34

According to property records, the land still remained in the name of Phoebe teed. It didn't actually change hands as far as ownership went because the son didn't have any rights to sign it over to his brother-in-law. And Phoebe didn't think that she signed over the land entirely to her brother. So yeah. Think of it this way. My house is in my name, right. But I have a bank who finance the mortgage on the house in order to purchase it because I am not yet a millionaire. They're getting on it. Correct. Therefore, I technically own the house. If you look at the property records, but the bank is listed as well because they have a lien on the house in the event of a loss, think of Conkling and Jennings as the bank and the bank is arguing over, who has the lien on the house while the ha you know, the house still technically is owned by someone else. 

0  

00:36:29

You know, Phoebe Teeds still owns the land. According to the will. You know, the argument went back and forth in the land, kept changing hands over time. Also keep in mind how much these court proceedings were costing. Each time they went on the morning of December 21st Jennings left his home to see if anyone had trespass on quote his land during the night. Nice. He never returned 

1  

00:36:55

Shocker, right? 

0  

00:36:57

It apparently wasn't uncommon for Jennings to be missing for a few days without his family's knowledge. So his disappearance, when I noticed for two days, 

1  

00:37:06

I mean, what kind of setup is that? Also wait till 

0  

00:37:10

We get to the next case. 

1  

00:37:13

You'll see. But I mean, it's very weird that you would go and then he sees, 

0  

00:37:19

He just goes missing. Occasionally it happens. It's not NBD, no big deal. 

1  

00:37:25

I just want to be like, I'm sorry, she's not home. And it's been four hours. I'm going to say, I mean, my husband's not like micromanaging or anything like that, but I mean, you know, he knows your habits. They'd be like, so she's been recorded with Kayla. And I mean, she's normally home by now and I've texted her and she hasn't, 

0  

00:37:45

I am in bed watching Andy Griffith. She is supposed to be here by now. Where is she? 

1  

00:37:51

Exactly. Or at least she hasn't responded to my text. I mean, you know, 

0  

00:37:56

So the authorities asked around to see if anyone had seen Jennings and someone recalled seeing a man named Jack Hodges with him recently, Hodgins just happened to live with the Conkling who was the brother-in-law to James just happened to live with them. Seven days later on December 28th, the search party was put together to go look for Jennings. So he 

1  

00:38:19

Missed Christmas. Is that what I'm hearing? 

0  

00:38:21

Yeah. 21st, the 28th, Ms. Christmas, 

1  

00:38:24

That was not suspicious to anyone that he missed her. I missing Christmas. 

0  

00:38:28

So it was two days after. So December 23rd is when everyone kind of officially noticed like, Hey he's and then it took, I guess everybody was like, Hmm, Christmas we're on holiday. Sorry, cops aren't here. So it took from the 23rd to the 28th for them to put a search party together. I mean, I'm just saying I'm not missing Christmas. I guess it might not have been as big of a deal back then, as it is now, the group search started out in the 50 acre lot that had been fought over for all these years. His body was found in an area that had been recently cleared near the body, the lock and several splinters of the stock of a gun were found he was lying face down and it appeared. He tried to crawl away from the scene. 

0  

00:39:12

Guys, there's not really big. Like at this point, no aerobic trigger warning as to what happens is it's very, very mild. So one side of his face had severe damage and one ear was partially missing. There were deep wounds in his head, and those were listed as the cause of death. A jury of inquest was convened and they stated that quote, the deceased was willfully murdered by Jack Hodges and that David Conkling and David Dunning were accessories, Conkling and Dunning were immediately put into prison. When the murder occurred, James teed, who keep in mind was the son and nephew was in New York and he returned on December 25th. 

0  

00:39:55

He was arrested on December 30th, I guess they decided he should have Christmas with his family. He was arrested on December 30th and sent to prison. It wasn't long until Teads wife, James T's wife was also arrested and put into prison on suspicions that she was also an accessory, but she had small children at home. And with her husband in prison, there just wasn't anyone else to supervise the children. She was only in prison a few days when her bail was posted and she returned home because she had kids got to watch the Sheeran's. 

0  

00:40:35

I mean, there's Phoebe. They apparently live with her at anyways. It's very weird. A baby may have been too old and feeble, maybe fable Phoebe. After further investigation, it was found that Jack Hodges left on the 26th of December authorities were after Hodges. And on the 29th, they were made aware that Hodges had crossed over the river at Newburgh, New York, four young men from the town of Chester immediately pursued him. They tracked him down through numerous cities, and then they got word that Hodges had bored, a sloop, which we discussed before about we did on its way to New York city. They quickly went to New York city, arrived at the docks and his Hodges was disembarking from the boat. 

0  

00:41:18

They grabbed him and took him to the police who at that point had already had a description of the man. Hodges did confirm his name, but said he didn't have anything to do with the murder. Who would say they did. He was placed on a boat bound for Habbershaw New York, which is around 45 minutes away from Sugarloaf today. And he was sent back to face the charges that he was being presented. He held out for quite a while, denying that he had anything to do with the murder, but before they landed, he confessed to the crime and then told in detail what happened once they reached Habbershaw wagon was waiting to take him to Goshen, which is 15 minutes away from Sugarloaf. 

0  

00:42:05

So he went 30 minutes up the road, and then he arrived there on the morning of January 2nd upon his arrival, the magistrates to cautious to a private room. I just told them everything and seemed remorseful for his actions. He was sent to prison right after that's good. Once in prison, he requested to be visited by the clergy, the reverend's Fisk, Cummins, coddle, and Thomas all visited at different times and on a consistent basis, or does it also said on several occasions that he didn't want the others to be executed for the crime because they had families to look after we'll find out a lot about Hodges. 

0  

00:42:49

And I hate to say that I like a murderer, but I you'll see would that he didn't have a choice in this matter for reasons that we will come upon. And he was fully willing to take on all of the blame himself. And you're about to find out what dun dun, da illness When Hodges. And this actually kind of made me really sad. It's been an emotional few weeks guys. And I actually teared up when I was like typing this out. So it's just really sad. 

0  

00:43:29

Hodges said on several occasions, he didn't want the others to be executed for the crime because they had families to look after. But when he spoke of himself, he said that he was quote, a poor black man who had no friends or relatives to wheat for him or lament. His death was just really sad to think about like, yeah, he's like, I don't have anyone to be sorry for me. That I'm dead. So just don't, don't kill these other people because they have families who care. And I was like, I just kind of sad. That's really sad. I not really bad. The honorable William w van ness, who we have discussed before. 

0  

00:44:10

He was also a justice. In another case that we discussed and all of the attorneys in this case are as well. I believe it's back to dang it. I can't remember which case it was, but we discussed him in a previous case. They all of these attorneys and everything. They're all names that we've heard before. Charges were read to all those indicted for the murder of Richard Jennings. And they are as follows. Jack Hodges was indicted for murder to which he refused to plead and stood silent. It was ordered by the court that a plea of not guilty be entered on his behalf because he would not speak. 

0  

00:44:50

David Dunning was indicted for murder as an accessory to the murder before and after the fact, he pleaded not guilty to all counts. David Conkling was indicted for accessory of murder before the fact he pled not guilty. James teed and died as an accessory before and after the fact, he also pled not guilty. And lastly, we finally learned the name of James, his wife, Hannah, Hannah. She was indicted as an accessory to murder before and after the fact, she also pleaded not guilty. So the trial was set for February 26th, 1819. The district attorney opened the case to the jury by saying, quote, the prisoner at the bar stands upon his trial charged with the highest offense of which our natures are capable, that of maliciously and with violence depriving a fellow being of life. 

0  

00:45:46

This is a new crime in our community. The public feeling is deeply affected by it as may be seen in the anxious interest of thousands pressing into this hall of justice to witness it's detection of punishment. Yes, thousands. Wow. Richard Jennings was murdered on the 21st of December 18, 18 Jack Hodges and David Dunning were said to have committed the murder together. This is kind of a low trigger warning here. So like I said, it's very low, but still the men were accused of quote, discharging, a loaded gun at Jennings. 

0  

00:46:27

And then with the breach of it, beat him to death. So with like the hilt of the gun, for those who don't know, the district attorney continued his opening arguments by saying, quote, the offense of the prisoner can not be mitigated. He took upon himself voluntarily other men's resentments. And without one grievance of his own to complain of became the remorseless assassin of an old man who was his friend. The deed was done in open day in public view and almost within sight of the family of the deceased. If you find the prisoner was the perpetrator, every feeling of regards to the law of the land and to the protection of yourselves and families and to the word of God, demand that his life should pay for the forfeit of his crime. 

0  

00:47:15

Very eloquent suppose after questioning a few witnesses, one of the magistrate that Hodges confessed to took the stand, his was Samuel J Wilkin. He spoke to the district attorney in the courtroom and said that in Hodges confession, he stated that Hodges lived with David Conkling in a nearby town for the past two years. And this is where we're going to get the full story of everything that happened. It was after one of those times that all of the men were in court that David Conkling asked Hodges to kill Richard Jennings, but Hodges would never answer him. 

0  

00:47:56

He kind of took it as one of those things of like, oh, he said that in passing, but he didn't really mean it kind of like, kinda like when you were like, they were drunk, they didn't mean that, but he meant it so crazy. Yeah. Let's see. Conkling anted once again, asked Hodges to kill Jennings arches, wouldn't answer again. So the men tried again stating that they would give him money. And the number eventually got up to around a thousand dollars, which is that's more than $500. Well, it's $21,540 and 71 cents. 

0  

00:48:36

Wow. And then the men told Hodges that it would last him quite a while to have that amount of money. So on Saturday, December 19th Hodges was in Sugarloaf and he was instructed to go to the Teads house where he would have C he would assist teed and David Dunning and killing Jennings. And when it was over, he would get a thousand dollars. The plan was for Dunning to walk out with Jennings Dunning, which they never really say very clearly Dunning was actually friends with. He was just a friend of the family. He didn't really have any, I guess, claim to anything that was really going on. 

0  

00:49:16

He was just a friend that was like, oh yeah, kill him. Like, sure. I'll help herion. He was the hot man. Yes. So Donnie wants to walk out with Jennings and Hodges would follow behind and he would shoot Jennings. The gun was given to Hodges by Conkling and Conkling was the man that he lived with. And Conklin had loaded the gun himself. Hodges arrived at the teat home and dawning met him outside. She men discussed in private what was to happen with Jennings and they agreed they would do it. The first chance that they had Hodges stayed with the T family until it was time to complete the job. And one night he asked Ms. 

0  

00:49:56

<inaudible> if she thought that he should back out, Hannah said it was a pity that he had to die with. He was, it was a penny. He had to die. But with him dead that put him out of the way Hodges again, had this conversation the next morning with Dunning and Hannah. And again, Hannah insisted saying that quote, it was time. The old Savage Jennings was out of the way and hopes that Hodges would be the one to kill him. Well, we don't matter of fact, one morning Hodges sitting at the breakfast table, eating when Dunning bursts through the door and said he saw Jennings walking by the house Hodges immediately stood and asked Hannah for some whiskey Hodges then asked how to shoot the gun. 

0  

00:50:42

Huh? Yeah. And he asked Hannah again, if he should really go through with this, this is hard. Again, makes me so sad. Third time, Hannah insisted he needed to die. And Hodges left the house. He saw Dunning walking with Jennings, harvest crossed a wheat field and hit in the woods. He saw Dunnigan Jennings enter a clearing. And when he stepped out of the woods towards the men, Jennings pointed to the cut timber around them and asked Hodges, if he helped cut it down, Hodges cocked the gun and Jennings asked him if the gun was loaded. 

0  

00:51:23

Hodges said it wasn't. And then he pulled the trigger. There's a small warning. Jennings immediately fell backwards. And once he fell, Dunning grabbed the gun from Hodges and said, quote, damn him. He isn't dead yet. And then Dunning proceeded to strike him over the head a few times until he broke the handle of the gun. Dunning and Hodges went back to the teat home and told Hannah that the old man was gone. Hannah smiled and quote treated him. I don't know what that means. I could take that a few different ways. So I don't know how they meant that here, but she insisted that Hodges eat, but he refused. 

0  

00:52:08

The men discussed that they would not tell anyone of the murder. And Hannah hid the remaining pieces of the gun under a bed in an upstairs room. Hodges went back to David Khan, clings and arrived. Before anyone had awoken Hodges made a fire and Conklin came into the room asking if the task had been completed. Conkling did not want to hear the details, but after a few days, he mentioned that Hodges probably stay low for awhile. I'll just went to go stay with a friend in a nearby town. And when Hodges arrived in the town, he ran in to James T who told him to run and that he was suspected of the murder. And this is where our story picks up to where we began. 

0  

00:52:50

Jack Hodges was given a guilty verdict. James T's trial went on for several days and had around 40 pages of court transcripts to read through. In the end, he was also given a guilty verdict. David Conkling also had a lengthy trial and was given a verdict of guilty. Good. They all should be guilty. Yes. Hannah teed changed her original plea in open court and she pleaded guilty to her crimes. Last up is David Dunning. And it should not be any surprise that he was given a guilty as well. Good bye. Marshall 11 18 19. All of the trials had ended and it was time for sentencing. 

0  

00:53:33

Panna. Teed was essentially told that she was a feeble minded woman who was probably manipulated by her husband. And again, she had children to take care of and would be the only parent that children had. So she was sentenced to 30 days in the county jail and sent home Jack Hodges and David Donnie, wait, Jack Hodges, David Dunning, James Tiede and David Conkling all received their sentences. At the same time, the judge stated he saw all of them as murders because the men who didn't execute the murder themselves were just as guilty for perpetrating the murder. 

0  

00:54:15

Good. They were all sentenced to death quote with these remarks, nothing remains of my duty, but to pronounce the sentence of the law, which is that you be taken from hints to the place from whence. You came and from thence to the place of public execution on Friday, the 16th day of April. Next that you there be hung by the neck, between the hours of two and three o'clock in the afternoon until you were dead. After the other men were dismissed, the judge called Jack Hodges up to the standalone to let him know that quote, the, the court had thought proper that his body after execution should be delivered to the president of the medical society of orange county. 

0  

00:55:04

For dissection. The judge said that while the murder was one terrible thing, if Hodges lied about the other men's involvement, it was 10 fold, worse than murder because they were now set to be executed as well. He said it wasn't too late and to speak now and let it be known before the fatal moment arrived. Jack Hodges looked at the judge and he answered quietly, calmly and deliberately that he had spoken the truth. And he had nothing left to say, all of them in sentences were carried out on the day that they were scheduled. 

0  

00:55:45

And that is America's first murder for hire case. Very sad. It is. And we have talked about it in a few other episodes before where people who were executed, their bodies did go to the local, like medical school for dissection, because remember a Parrington they said that his body didn't like, he wasn't even worthy of going to the school to be dissected. So they buried him on the opposite side of the road from the cemetery with the weapons used. So yeah. It's so that is, that's the first case of murder for hire in the United States. 

0  

00:56:30

But I mean, like I said, I still felt bad for Jack because he was just like, don't, don't kill them. Like just kill me. Nobody's nobody's here to care about me. So, but 

1  

00:56:42

I'm glad that the judge didn't listen 

0  

00:56:43

To him. Well, I mean, I am glad of that. It's just sad that he even had to say something himself. It's just really sad because it's like, oh, like, Hm. And again, he, like I said before, and I try to not make it a major point in some of the cases that we discussed to talk about the race or the background of some of the people in the case. I try, if it's not a major point of the case, I try to not, I don't want to make that as like a reason for anything that does happen or doesn't while it, racism is a very, very, very large thing. And we are aware that it goes on. 

0  

00:57:25

Sometimes I try to not like, I don't want people to look at the case and be like, oh, well he was a black man. So he did it like, you know, cause I know some people see cases like that. And I, with this, that wasn't really the case. It seems as though he was a helper to Conkling because this is keep in mind guys, this is in the north kind of when slavery was already dissipating. So a lot of people who, a lot of people, a lot of people who did have slaves at some point or another, even though a lot of them were emancipated and they were, you know, left to go on their own. Some who didn't have families to go with or to go to often stayed with that family is kind of like a, a servant, not so much. 

0  

00:58:15

I hate to say not so much a slave because you still kind of are, but they were more paid for what they were doing. Rather rather than like a Butler or a nanny, they were more paid for what they were doing. Then being forced into work. Now I understand that's not the same case everywhere, but even still in that feeling, you have to imagine that Conkling asked Hodges to do that. And Hodges is like, I live with him. He has some sort of duty that he feels to carry through with something he asked him to do. And 

1  

00:58:52

So he has self-talk and you know, from what he, the reason he said that to the judge, you know, some of that is his self-talk to his self-taught is I'm not worth anything. You know, they are, their lives are worth more than my life is. 

0  

00:59:15

You know, it's just really sad. I mean, it's so sad, terrible to think that way as a, that you're not worth anything. Cause that's, that's never the case. We we've guys, I think we've ran it into the ground. Our thoughts on mental health. So y'all know how, how we think about it, but, and really, you've got to be careful with that, especially just thinking about that. And in terms of, of a lot of different things, I've recently made it a very large point to be careful how I think about myself and to be careful of how I think about other things. You know, some people don't don't follow certain things, but there, there are limiting beliefs that you can put upon yourself as though in a lot of it, like I said, deals with other things, but like people say to tell yourself affirmations in the morning and how it's not, you know, you tell yourself those affirmations. 

0  

01:00:08

Well, it's actually like a subconscious thing to where if you tell yourself you can't do something enough times, then you you're, you're physically not going to be able to do you're. Right. Because you've told yourself so many times that you can't, that you truly can't. So just like this, you sit there for years and you think to yourself, I'm worthless. I don't have any family. I don't have anyone that cares for me. I don't have this and that. Then yeah. Somebody asks you about something and it, and it involves some other, some other people who you find worthy of that attention, then you're like, well, no, I'm not worth any of it. 

0  

01:00:48

It's someone that you 

1  

01:00:49

Herself and before yourself all the time automatically, then that's, that's what you are already. 

0  

01:00:56

And you can't, you can't think of yourself that way. I mean, everybody is important. Everybody are a pink Starburst. Leo always says you're a pink Starburst. And I might send 

1  

01:01:04

Texts that say that, 

0  

01:01:06

You know, you just, you can't think about things like that. You can't tell yourself that you can't do something. You can't tell yourself things like that. You can't keep being negative about yourself, the way that you talk about yourself to yourself as the way that you will see yourself. And that can be very dangerous. And I know we do have a lot of listeners who are, I'll say they are female, or I guess better way of saying is, or, you know, we have some people who are female or identify as female, or, you know, w what have you, whatever your situation is in life. 

0  

01:01:46

And even men. I mean, anybody, anyone deals with these things, honestly, of thinking negatively about yourself or being self-deprecating or being negative about the way that you look and that is never like it. Yes, we all do. But like, can't do that. Like we, the more you tell yourself, those things about yourself, the more that you believe them. And so, yeah, it is dangerous, especially in this really in a lot of cases, because think of this is the best way that I ever thought about it for myself, because I, I, as Leah knows, I cover up my emotions with humor. 

0  

01:02:33

Not mean never times, times very dark. And so that's my way of like, coping is like dark humor or sarcastic menace or, or different things like that. But you also still have to think when you're talking about yourself in terms of, am I this, or am I that, or anything like that, you need to think one, would you talk about someone else that way? And if the answer's no, then why are you giving someone else more respect than you're giving yourself? And how would you approach it if someone spoke to you that way, how, how would you feel then? 

0  

01:03:19

And I mean, my bad is you're not going to feel real great about it. You're not going to be real happy if somebody tells you I'm so fat, you know, you're not going to take it well, if someone tells you that, so why is it okay for you to tell yourself that you had to respect yourself? And, and, and that's, that's hard. A lot of times we live in a society where a lot of people are real caught up in how they look. Lots of people are real caught up in how much they weigh or how their hair looks or how, like anything. I mean, it's one of those things. So my boyfriend, he just had a birthday this week, but he's always made this joke that he has thinning hair and he's taller than me. 

0  

01:04:06

So I don't, I never really noticed. And he has always kind of been real self-conscious about it throughout times was I, cause it started when he was pretty young. He's tended to yeah, he's in his late thirties now, but he, it started, you know, I think it kind of started like in his mid, late twenties and then started at 19. So he always made this joke that like his hair decided to divorce him. Like this was not a mutual decision. And so it's just one of those things of like, you know, yeah. There's things like that. And there's a lot of people that make people feel self-conscious for it. I mean, think of how many commercials are out there that are like, if you use this product, you're going to look like this, or you're going to do this or that, or, you know, which honestly the generation that's grown up kind of in mine and, and younger than mine is honestly a generation that I think has kind of broken out of a lot of that. 

0  

01:05:08

Or they're not as obsessed. I think that it depends on the segments. But I think that overall it's not as much of an emphasis as it used to be. I think you're seeing, especially with magazines and the way that things are, kind of, you have models that aren't all a size zero, you know, you've got like airy. The reason that I love shopping for those who don't know, that's like American Eagles, like bras and underwear and stuff like that. A love airy, but Arie makes it a point to, they have models of all different sizes, ethnicities, disabilities. 

0  

01:05:51

I mean, everything. They have everything. And it's very interesting because you can also choose like, okay, this is the size that I wear in this. And they'll have a model that is close to that size that you can say, okay, what would I look like in this? Not what does this girl, who's a double zero has no chest. And it's like a walking. I mean, like I'm not being negative, but I'm saying compared to myself, this girl looks like a walking like skeleton, because I can never be like, just my body type. I'm not going to look like that. Like have more courage. Like I'm not, my body type is not conducive to looking like that. 

0  

01:06:33

And that's how some people are. You got people that are real tall and real thin. And then, you know, it's, and that is not me on either note. I mean, it's just, it's crazy. So I think it's definitely changed in that way now. I mean, look at the Victoria secret fashion show. It's no longer a thing where that used to be like the thing, the thing. And you hear all these people talk about just different things. I saw a tech talk the other day that it was a model and she was modeling for a company and her friend just happened to record her. And she was letting a photographer have it because the photographer mentioned to her, they were supposed to shoot the next day as well. 

0  

01:07:17

And just commonly mentioned to her that maybe she shouldn't eat between now. And the next day she obliterated him like she, and she said, she was like, I'm confident enough in myself to know that I don't need to do that. And she said, but other models that you were working with, they don't have that confidence in themselves. And she was like, you were creating eating disorders. Like that's not healthy. You don't. And this girl, like, there was no reason for her to need to. And she actually said, she was like, I've actually been working with my doctor to figure out how to gain weight because of like different things that she had dealt with with eating disorders before. And she's like, I've been working to actually gain weight. 

0  

01:07:59

And you're lucky that I'm mentally in a place where I'm good now. And I'm confident because that read that before I would have spiraled yeah. Would have shattered. And it's like, yeah, like, and I used to be much more of a thing before and models. A lot of times they wouldn't say anything. They would just go, oh, okay. Sure thing. Like, it's insane. Insane. I mean, it's just so crazy, but we got to think about ourselves in positive ways. Guys, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta do those things. You gotta tell yourself I am statements and same over and over again until you positive. 

1  

01:08:39

I am statements. 

0  

01:08:41

I am, I am enough. I am happy. I am healthy. I am like, you need to. And you know what, if you don't believe him today, Sam for 30 days and keep saying until you believe him, because it's the best thing for you. It's we talked about nature versus nurture in our previous episode. And in that sense, you are just simply nurturing your own mind for yourself. And we should all do that. I feel like I'm doing a public health segment online, PBS. It's like you are, do you remember in star? 

1  

01:09:20

You may be too young, which makes me sad. Do you remember this Saturday night live sketch with, I think it's pat Smalley. Yes. Good enough. I'm smart enough. And duck on it. People like 

0  

01:09:34

Say that to yourself, but yeah. I just, I don't know. I feel like I'm, it's one of those like public service ads that you see on television and that are that sometimes like, sometimes they really missed the mark with those, like, yeah. It was public service. Like one of them is about depression. And I think in teens and it's the girl and she's sitting beside her friend on the couch and she looks at her and she goes, are you okay? And the friend just stares at her. And I'm like, okay, first of all, let's let's just go ahead and know that teens lie. So if you ask a teen, are you okay? 

0  

01:10:17

Chances are because I know me. I'm like fan tastic today. Anyways, some of those things just I'm like, who made that? What? It's the ad council? That's who always makes it, it's always the ad council. I'm like, because you don't want to workshop that a little bit more, just a bit. 

1  

01:10:41

And it also depends on which teenager it is. 

0  

01:10:44

I mean, gosh, I can't some things, but you know, that's why I have a podcast and why I don't run the ad council, I suppose I probably could. Anyways. Yeah. I think that wraps up episode 20. I've gotten on my soap box. Just 

1  

01:11:02

Remember you are a pink Starburst and remind yourself that 

0  

01:11:05

Unless you like yellow Starburst, I don't know why you would like them, but if you like them in the yellow, like orange, I don't like yellow. 

1  

01:11:12

I like that. The red, 

0  

01:11:15

I don't like this psycho or here. 

1  

01:11:20

You can't see my look guys, but it's 

0  

01:11:24

Everybody knows like the all reds bag, like where it's the pinks and they're so good in there. They have like the fruit punch one and I mean the all pink bag is 

1  

01:11:39

The worst flavor. Other than cherry, cherry and frequency. 

0  

01:11:43

Gary is the worst player. Like I can't do cherry cherry, the all pink bag. 

1  

01:11:50

No, it's really not because I like, I like pink, but, but they tricked me. Like I thought it was all pink, but then it was like, 

0  

01:11:59

And watermelon, they had watermelon, watermelon, 

1  

01:12:04

Fruit punch, and cherry are like the two fruit flavors 

0  

01:12:08

Y'all might not have, depending on when you're listening all might not have a Publix where y'all are Publix has the lucky charms, just marshmallows. I have not. I saw him the other day. I was there, like on an end there, like in one of those little displays, it's not a happy, it's not like an end cap. It's like a, one of those cardboard displays that they set up. But it had, it's a small bag. Like it is just a bag of marshmallows, but I saw it the other day and it didn't make me happy. I mean, look, but it, if, look, we'll end the episode on high note and we'll talk about this right now, because anything anyone should know about me and Leah, we like food. Yes. But there are two places that Lee and I can go and get lost. 

0  

01:12:51

Three places, three, I'll go with three hobby lobby. Well then for, oh, home goods, hobby lobby, TJ Maxx target. Those are, we could y'all and we're getting home goods right beside us. I'm so excited about it. We're supposed to get a hobby lobby if they ever get their stuff together on that other side of that, we're supposed to get this whole like big entertainment center, like built near where we live and it's taken forever and we're supposed to hobby lobby, supposed to be an anchor store. Very excited about whatever all of our stores have, all of their fall stuff out now. 

0  

01:13:32

And fall is just so pretty. It's a happy time. We actually, which it'll come out. But we had an interview with somebody from one of the local papers that we were talking. We had our first interview. We did. And we were sitting out, we had to go to Starbucks and you know, Starbucks. Some of them won't let you sit inside, were sitting outside. And we were halfway through it. And I went it's fall because it was like crispy, outside. Like it was, you know what I mean? It's like that crisp fall air that you feel like where you're sitting there and you're like, oh, I'm a little cold. But like, I like it. 

1  

01:14:12

Yes, it was, it was a nice, nice. 

0  

01:14:16

I was drinking a try. I was drinking an iced chai latte. It was amazing. Leah knows my feeling on a Starbucks, putting chai tea latte on their menu. Anyways, it's a child loss. Hey guys, don't say chai tea latte, because tri is tea. 

1  

01:14:34

And I had a hot tea. 

0  

01:14:35

Yes. Leah had a hot tea. You had your English, wasn't an English breakfast, English breakfast tea, which Leah likes tea. You like hot tea like that. And I do you and your Scottish roots, I've actually bought Leah tea cups and saucers for presence and tea towel. Yes. She has tea towels with the souls on them. 

1  

01:14:57

I bought myself a tea towel that says I'm waiting for the kitchen fairy to come and clean that 

0  

01:15:04

I am the kitchen fairy. And you know what? Sometimes she needs to be fired. Honestly, she doesn't have 

1  

01:15:09

Stop telling my husband that we need to fire our current mayor, but she really stinks at her job. 

0  

01:15:15

I mean, I CA I, I concur. You're not as organized as I am. That that's what would get me. I'm organized. Yours is organized chaos. 

1  

01:15:28

Yes. Some things are very organized though, but some things were just not. Yeah, I can. Some things are organized chaos. It's somethings are very organized. Like everything in the cabinet needs to be facing out so you can see what it is. 

0  

01:15:40

That's just the, that should have be how things are anyways. You would think you would guys don't get me started. I should own an organization company. I should go organize other people's houses. But people say that all the time. They were like, cause I we've discussed before. I do have OCD. So I do have tendencies when I'm very stressed. And when I, I will go spiral and it's not good, like, it's, it's, it's really bad. But people are like, oh, when you get in that mood, you should come over to my house. And I'm like, you don't want me over there because I will throw away everything. Like I would, I do not. When's the last time you touched this? Oh, two years. 

0  

01:16:20

Okay, good. You don't need it by like, I don't, I don't do stuff like that. My mom always tells me, you need to come like help me organize my office or she'll need help cleaning out her closet. And I'm like, you do not want my help. I promise you because I will throw away 90% of it because I, and I don't mean like throw away, like I'll donate it or whatever. Like last weekend I went through my whole house and cleaned out all my kitchen cabinets and cleaned out the closets and clean up drawers, like, and had quite a lot to take to there's a place near us. It's called the Foundry and that they help anyways. 

0  

01:17:00

It's a really great organization, but I took all of it there so that they could, you know, do stuff with it. But I was just like, no people always say, you always say, you want my help until I come in there. And I'm like, was this, what do you need it for? I need a five page essay. That's in your home. Oh, it's not that important for five pages. All right, trash. Well, put it into the donate box. 

1  

01:17:25

I am going to be going through, I have lost at least 25 pounds. I know. And 

0  

01:17:31

Which Leah did not need to lose weight. She was beautiful just the way she was. But Leah felt as though she was not happy in her current state and needed to do something healthy for herself. I'm just saying just based off of what we were discussing with body positivity. I don't want people to think, thank you. You also need to lose weight. Everyone is beautiful. You are your own Starburst. Everybody is a beach body just saying Leah was feeling uncomfortable in herself. 

1  

01:17:55

I was not happy with myself and how I felt. And so in how bad is perfectly 

0  

01:18:02

Acceptable. 

1  

01:18:03

But my husband told me when he left anyway, and there was plenty of meta love, but I was not happy with all that. There was there to love 

0  

01:18:13

To feel hope that you did not want for, she starts. Cause I know her she's gone with that and I'll, I'll get her back on track guys. Don't worry. There is a difference. She just brings this up. There is a difference between wanting to be skinny and wanting to feel healthy. Yes. And we feel good about yourself. 

1  

01:18:31

Yes. And not wanting to feel 

0  

01:18:34

Yucky and you can feel healthy and you can feel good about yourself at any size, but just losing weight because you want to be skinny is not. That's not that that's that anyways. Continue cleaning out your closet. I know that's where you're going. 

1  

01:18:49

I have clothing that ranges from my smallest size to my largest size. And I will tell you that is a very large range. It is a very large range. And so 

0  

01:19:04

One keep in mind though, one of those ranges was depression. Leo who couldn't eat because it made her physically sick. Absolutely. That, that was a very, very thin then state. 

1  

01:19:16

Yes, that is true. But there, I mean, yes, but just one size up from that was my normal size. 

0  

01:19:30

Correct? Well, because you could not anyways. 

1  

01:19:33

Well, no, that was my normal size. Yeah. But anyway, so once I kind of, I'm just about where I'm gonna land, you know, because Hey, I'm 42 means some things just, they ain't going to go back where they used to be and that's fun 

0  

01:19:50

And I'm not going to eat like a bird all my life where I had a boyfriend. Who's a chef. So I can't, it's not going to happen. 

1  

01:19:57

I mean, and, and I don't eat like a bird and it's fine. I mean, I don't expect to me the size that I was when I was 21, because that's just, that's, that's just not gonna in that spot, but I need to purge all the things. I mean, I do. I mean, I do. And I've lived in the house since 2005 and I need to just get over 

0  

01:20:20

And perjury keeping up on 20 years. That's a lot of stuff 

1  

01:20:25

And I really just need to go through and purge all the things. I mean, things that aren't in style anymore that had just kinda gotten shoved to the back of the closet. Cause I haven't really done a good 

0  

01:20:35

And you always have one of those things where you look at it and you're like, oh, I might wear it. And then you're like two years later you went, oh I never, yeah. I never wore that. 

1  

01:20:46

Or just, oh, well I'm not get back in. Those am not going back in those. So, you know, and 

0  

01:20:53

One way or the other, I will say that too. Cause a lot of times like I've done that before where I've had things that were way too small that I need to get rid of. And then I've had things that were too big, but I always had this mentality of like, what if, what if, and then I got to the point where I was like, I can't do that. 

1  

01:21:12

Yeah. Well I got rid of all of my, yes, my larger clothing. And then I got back to that size and then got bigger than my bigger sizes. But anyway, yeah, I've got to, I've got to purge that. So I might get you to help me with that. I'll just bring them to your house. We'll have a fashion 

0  

01:21:32

And show bring up. I'll bring a big box and just like, just leave the box, put it in the box. 

1  

01:21:39

Don't even tell you to try to box 

0  

01:21:41

Now. Yes, no, no. Ma'am, I'm going to get, I'm going to have to get a spray bottle and just like, 

1  

01:21:48

I've got one for the dog, Sheldon barks when he's in the crate at night. Cause they didn't want to be in it until he just spray it with. 

0  

01:21:55

I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't either, but you know, it's got to learn some way or another. So I know we've talked Joe's ears off enough. We've gone way off track. You are your own Starburst, whatever flavor or color of Starburst you prefer. 

1  

01:22:12

Correct. 

0  

01:22:14

If you don't like Starburst, you are your own perfect French fry because I honestly five guys French fries. That sounds so good. I'm so good. Anyways. Yeah. We got a website. You can find any and all low. When you see information, it's one nation under crime.com. We are also starting to put transcripts on the website of our episodes based off the way we talk. It's not real easy to edit them, but y'all will have them some point in time I've been working on them. But you know, it came to, do you want a podcast this week? Or do you want transcripts? And I decided you don't want to do a podcast. So here we are. 

0  

01:22:54

We are on Facebook and Instagram, one nation under crime and at O in UC pod on Twitter. Again, guys go rate our podcast on apple podcast. We love you. We appreciate if you do it, you could an awesome, cool sticker. And I'll send that out to you. We have a Patrion. You can be like all of our other cool Patrion fans right now. And you can help us with the cost of making and hosting the show. And eventually you will get even more from us. So we appreciate you listening to us banter and ramble. And if you've made it this far, thank you. And we will see you here. Same time, different crime next week. 

0  

01:23:36

And remember there is an always Liberty and justice for all goodbye.