Dec. 6, 2021

1828: Isaac Desha


Garth Brooks says it was good to have 'Friends in Low Places'. However, it really helps for people to have friends in high places. Especially if you are on trial for murder and even more so if that friend is the governor and your dad.

This week the ONUC gals discuss Isaac Desha and his part in the deaths of Francis Baker and Thomas Early, Kayla educates everyone on some courtroom terminology, and have several laughs when Judge Peg Leg enters the episode. And Peggy! (You'll get that joke once you listen.)

Trigger Warning Level: Low-ish
There are a few cringy moments but they are brief (less than 10 seconds).

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Remember, there isn't always liberty and justice for all.

Sources: Executed Today and The Strange Case of Isaac B Desha by Jeanette H. McCarthey - Published by the Kentucky Historical Society

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/onenationundercrime)
Transcript

You were listening to one nation under crime, a historical chronological, true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case for me. Cheers, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm 

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Leah. We 

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Have made it. Do you know what episode number? This is 30. Yes, 

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We are out of our twenties 

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Out of much like myself now this year. Yes. This year was my 30th birthday, but yes, we have officially made it to episode 

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33, 0 3 0. 

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We got, it's been a, it's been a monumental week. We got our first one star rating on apple podcasts. And I mean, whatever, whatever. I mean, it's fine. I'm I'm, I'm fine with it. 

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We have reached another milestone. I mean, 

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It's a Rite of passage for podcasters, honestly, 

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You know, you get, you get the battle along with the good, it's just one of those things that happens. There's always one. It's all good. 

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There is always one. So we're, we're still here, but if you would like to go give us a five-star review, please do five stars only. I've had, clearly I've not said my thing. And then a while five or nothing, five stars. Only nothing less than five stars. If you have nothing nice to say or nothing nice to write, then don't say anything. I may have you 

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Not seen Bambi 

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Paper, right? I mean, come on, you know, these things. So we have made it to episode 30 and we are in the year 1828. This episode, this week is SKUs some twists and turns. So it's pretty interesting. Also our bonus episode bonus came out last week. For those of you who did listen to it, I hope you all enjoyed it. So pretty a bit of people have downloaded it so far. So hopefully that was a nice little surprise for you if you didn't know about it. 

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And like I said, then we're going to do one episode kind of like each week, there's going to be a bonus episode that comes out about a historical topic or an event or really anything. That's interesting. So in the name 

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Is ingenious. Yes. 

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It is called USBs where we talk about the BS of the U S so always a fun time. And so, yeah, go listen to that. If you haven't all ready and then you'll have another episode coming out in a couple of days. I 

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Mean, I mean, we're givers, givers, 

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What can we say, givers all around or humble 

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Main givers? 

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What, what could you have to one-star about I'm learning whatever so beautiful. I mean, givers were hilarious. We're knowledgeable. I just is. I suppose humble. Did I leave anything out? I don't think so. Okay. Our sources this week, before we get into it, our sources this week, the always, always helpful executed today.com executed today, which is what, which is funny that this, anyways, it's funny that this one is on executed today because he was not executed. Interesting. 

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Yes. So, and then I got a, well, it's kind of like a historical paper that someone wrote it was published by the Kentucky historical society. So we are back in Kentucky and I was somebody executed now. You'll see. And so this was from J S T O r.org. I am now a member of that because of like libraries and COVID and stuff have been closed, like card carrying members, not really like a card carrying member, but because it's kind of how you find like germ, like I said before, like journals or papers or things that yes, like research that people have done. 

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And a lot of it, you can't access unless you like are part of a college. Gotcha. So because of COVID, they let researchers have access. So I am now, now a member of JS. So you don't have to have a card. No. So it is showing my age, sorry. Events from 1828, January 8th, the democratic party was established officially. At this time, we did already have kind of two part. We had democratic Republicans and we've had different things throughout this time. So it Federalists all the, you know, so February 19th, the Boston society for medical improvement was established February 21st. 

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The Cherokee Phoenix is the first newspaper published by native Americans in the United States. And in one of their indigenous languages, interesting Cherokee tribe, March 24th, the Philadelphia and Columbia railway was authorized. And this was the first state owned railway. So all of the others have been kind of like a company, a private company, April 4th. Now keep in mind, this did happen in Amsterdam. It's on here for a reason. So I'm very well aware. This was not the us, but again, just like some other things that I found, this was another invention that people needed to know about. 

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Okay. Caspar Chris van wooden, that's a fun name, patented chocolate milk. 

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I mean, where it would be 

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Chocolate and he is from Amsterdam. So Netherlands chocolate. Yeah. April 14th, Noah Webster registered a copyright for the publication of the first American dictionary of the English language may eight, the American peace society was formed in opposition to war militarism or violence. Right? All right. May 19th, the tariff of 1828 was enacted critics named it, the tariff of abominations because they saw it as unfairly protective of Northern industry to the disadvantage of the Southern economy. 

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It set attacks on quote, imported goods from the south that were anywhere from 38 to 45% of attacks for anything that was coming from the south to the north, specifically, not the other way around. So that's why it was called the tariff of abomination. Well, on July 4th, the construction of the Baltimore and Ohio railroad commenced with the first cornerstone laid by Charles Carroll, August 11th, the working men's party was founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It is the first quote worker oriented political party in the U S the party began due to the growing concerns of craftsmen and skilled workers of the lower socioeconomic class. 

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They were called the WorkKeys and the, Hey, sorry, that's just been me left. And they, with the workees, they press for equal educational opportunities. So free public education instead of having to pay for school, 

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Faith and the LRE. Oh, I'm sorry. I went back to my school days. I apologize. 

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And they also pressed for, they were against forest service and the militia, which we kind of still have today. You have to register for the draft of your mail in the United States. 

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They do eight and 

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18. Yeah, you have to be 18. So they demanded, they demanded the 10 hour Workday instead of 14 or whatever hours they wanted the abolition of imprisonment for debt and an effective mechanics, lien law for laborers on buildings. This law would specifically prevent the seizure of a Craftsmen's tools as a security for a debt. 

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But I been, here's the thing that makes sense, because number one, if you take a craftsman's tools, how's he going to work off his debt to pay 

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You? 

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And then number two, if you put a debt or into prison for a debt, how's he gonna work to pay off his debt? So, I mean, those 

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Makes sense. Those do make sense to me. And that, that was what I was thinking too. October 27th gold was first discovered by Benjamin Parks, near Cherokee first nation land in Lumpkin county, Georgia Lumpkin. It was technically the first gold rush. You know what? 

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I toddled a school. And there was a guy whose last name was Lumpkin. Interesting. 

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I don't know how I feel about the last name, but oh, well it just hit me just the name. And so December 3rd, current president John Quincy Adams lost his reelection to Andrew Jackson. Wow. Undated events from 1828, the house of representatives election increase the majority of the Jacksonian Democrats checks. So Jacksonian history of the life and voyages of Christopher Columbus, a novel by Washington, Irving was published and popularized. The common misconception that Europeans thought the earth was flat prior to the explorations of Columbus. 

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00:10:09

Not saying that that's all that was in there. I'm not really sure what all it was, but that's a brief synopsis. Two minor political parties were formed the single issue, anti Masonic party, which we did talk about. And that was in upstate New York and the NOLA fire party, which advocated state's rights in opposition to the tariff of abominations. So that was the whole reason that that party started was because of that tariff may not have 

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To say, I really liked the name of the tariff. 

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It's a fun one. So ring spinning machine was developed in the United States. Ring spinning is a method of spinning fibers like cotton, flax, or wool to make yarn. And then the last undated event from 1828, John Neal published Rachel Dyer, the first hard cover novelized version of the Salem witch trials. 

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I knew that name sounded familiar 

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Are bursts in 1828, June 2nd. We have James Cutler, Dunn Parker, very long name is a long name. He was an organist and a composer. He was a Jim and I August 6th, Andrew Taylor, still very, very interesting person that most people wouldn't know about. He is considered the father of osteopathy and he was a civil war. Surgeon. Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine that emphasizes physical manipulation of the body, muscle tissues and bones. I'm not a chiropractor. 

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Okay. There is a difference because it deals with different physical manipulations for muscles as well from everything. There's a whole thing. People want to say that osteopathy isn't a, shouldn't be doctorate. There's a whole thing. Like when you go to the page on Wikipedia where it talks about osteopathy at the very top, it says in like in like a banner, it says, please know that osteopathy is under investigation on this page to see if it's like a legit medical field. And it is, but it's like somebody got mad. Like somebody went on there and was like, no, but he's the one who started all of it. 

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August blame him for the final Wikipedia, right? He was a Leo, by the way, August 18th, William, a Hammond was born. He was a military physician and neurologist. And he's the 11th surgeon general of the us army. For those who aren't aware, we still have the surgeon general of the army today. And the surgeon General's main duty is to provide access and assistance on all healthcare matters pertaining to the U S army and its military health system. He was also Liam, let's see, November 17th, Milton Wright was born. 

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He is a Bishop of the United brother in church and father of the Wright brothers. He's a Scorpio. And for those who don't know, we'll, we'll get to the Wright brothers. We'll definitely talk about them. We might do a USBs episode for the Wright brothers, father of the fathers of light. Yes. He's the father of the fathers of light grandfather, a flight. So our deaths in 1828. So we have some interesting deaths this year. Oh dear. They tie back to two of these deaths tie back to previous cases that we have discussed. 

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And I just thought that it was interesting that they fell here. So March 25th, Mariah Reynolds died most Reynolds most, no Mariah as the mistress of Alexander Hamilton. And she was the main topic of the Reynolds pamphlet that came out with this. I know that, sorry, I got excited. I lost my mind June 6th. This is the other one that ties back John Kinsey from a trader and the man responsible for the first murder in Chicago died. 

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<em></em> and then this was very interesting. December 22nd. Remember that? I said Andrew Jackson was just elected. Rachel Jackson died on December 22nd before he was inaugurated. She was the wife of Andrew Jackson who was just selected as president. And this made Andrew Jackson, the second widower in office and his niece, Emily handled the hostessing duties of the first lady during the first years of his presidency. The other, the first widower was Thomas Jefferson and his daughter, Martha, who went by Patsy, took her first lady duties. 

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But Thomas Jefferson was the first widower in office. And then Andrew Jackson was the second. I just thought that was because I've always wondered that like we've not had a single president, like that's been, they've always been married to someone. And so that was, and I've often I've often thought of that, but anyways, and then just to think like two of them were widowers was just interesting. It just very interesting. So I, you know, cause I've always wondered how, how does that work? Cause I know the first lady has her duties that she needs to do, you know, like there's a lot of different things specifically that she's responsible for a lot of philanthropy, a lot of different things like that. 

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Of course, hosting people at the white house, you know, lots of different things and the writing, the white house for Christmas. I mean, one of the most important things I know it's not that 

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Undecided, 

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But you know, I've, I just wondered like what if they died, but both of them had daughters and so, or no, Andrew Jackson had a niece. It was his niece. And then Thomas Jefferson, it was his daughter. Well, 

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I say, you know, I love some cheesy hallmark and hallmark like movies because 

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That's just, just turn them on a moment ago. We did There's let me okay. Go, go ahead. Okay. So 

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There was one, I think it was on Hulu. I don't remember, but it was called a first lady and it was about the, this lady was first, the first lady her husband died and the vice president was sworn in, but then he was running for a second term and she ran with him. Like they ran together and she ran as his first lady. It was very interesting. And they talked about his niece, how she, and that was where they kind of got the idea, like she ran the white, she, she did the first lady position and did it beautifully. And you know, she already, this first lady <em></em> It says 

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It's very interesting. It's a very interesting concept. And then because unique 

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Movie to a unique, yeah, that is a 

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Unique idea because that is very interesting as to what, what, what happens in that role. It's an important and then, well, and then to not to like get into anything specific, but had, we had a first female president, which we haven't had an official first female president, we have a vice president right now. We had a female president 

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For a couple of hours, 

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A couple of hours for colonoscopy. But my, my question is, would the duties of the first man change because, and because he's a man. Yeah. And that's a good question. Would they still remain the same because we know how, you know, things are viewed as far as that goes. And so the first ladies position typically is more of the feminine, 

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You know, the, the greeting and, and making sure everyone feels safe. And I mean, it's more than that part. 

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Right? That's what most people see is that portion of it. And so that's what I wonder is if we did have a first man, if the duties would change and if some of those first lady duties would actually go to the president and if they did what other things come off of the president so that she would take on first lady duties. Very interesting, because we've never had one. That is a very interesting thought, you know, because I mean, men, I mean, traditionally not currently, but a lot of men, they don't care how the white house is decorated. They're just like it's red and green. Cool. Yeah. 

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My husband and be like, just put 

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A tree tree pair. What do you mean? We have to have 73 trees. Yeah, that'd be, 

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Yeah, it looks great. 

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00:19:38

That'd be the barest Christmas that the white house 

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I'm going to put up, whatever you want, just don't spend over X amount. That's what my husband would care about. He'd be like, look, this is the, 

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00:19:49

If my, or if my boyfriend, yeah. My boyfriend, he would not at all at all at all. It would be, he would have a Charlie brown Christmas tree. This is it. But yeah, I've always wondered that like, cause I, I think of just weird off topic, things like that, just like, well, is an, is there anything in place that states what would happen in that instance? I'm sure. Not 

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00:20:17

Because exactly. I mean, 

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Because it's not been, I mean, Hillary ran during the last Hillary Clinton ran during not this past election cycle, but the election cycle before. So technically, 

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00:20:31

Technically there should be a first thing in play. Right. 

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00:20:34

But our first man would have also been president. So that would have been very interesting to, to see. Sure. Because he's already done the job. Well, I mean, he's, they've already both been in, right. They've already both in the house so he could have just been, Hey, just do it like it was, you know, that was my question as to what, because, so for any people who have ever watched scandal, it was a show that was on for a really long time. It's a Shonda Rhimes, original. It is phenomenal. And what happens in it? Like, sorry, no spoilers guys. This show, it went off like five years ago. 

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00:21:16

It's a very, very good show though. And if you've not watched it, I highly recommend it. But in that show, the first lady ends up running for president and she won, you know, and ever watched it. And she divorced her husband. Like she, yeah. Yeah. Cause she found out her husband's cheating on her. And so she, so it's very interesting because I, you know, I've always wondered. And then if there isn't a first lady and there isn't a niece to take over or there isn't what happens then? Who does it fall to? Yeah. It's just very interesting to think of how those things could happen. That's how my brain works. 

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00:21:58

There's a peak into the craziness that is Kayla signed. You're welcome. And, and what's bad is verbalizing. It takes me longer than it did to think of it. I thought of it really quickly. And then I had to work through in my head how to explain it because that's just how my, like my brain just goes a thousand miles a minute. So we are going to get onto our case this week, August 13th, 1828, Isaac Bledsoe Desha died while incarcerated in San Felipe bay. They, Austin, Texas Desha was waiting on his trial to start for the murder of Thomas early. 

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00:22:46

Now I said, there are twists and turns and oh boy, are there some interesting things that go on? So we'll get into it. Of course. But we are back in Kentucky, we were just in Kentucky a little bit ago as well. So I don't really drink bourbon bourbon now. So, but anyways, we are in Maysville, Kentucky to begin with. I know that I said on the other that he died while he was incarcerated in Sanfilippo Austin, San fleet bay day, Austin, Texas. He was incarcerated there when he died, but our story starts and the main parts of our story take place in Maysville, Kentucky. 

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00:23:34

So we're going to travel. Yes. Oh, there's a lot. So Maysville is located in Mason county in the Northeast area of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and the borders Ohio. The city is located on the Ohio river and a 66 miles Northeast of Lexington. We talked about Lexington in our bonus episode, the battle of Lexington and Concord or the battles, the geographic area is known as the outer bluegrass region. The region of the state is characterized by underlying fossil Ferris, limestone dolomite, highly fertile soil and the center of breeding quality livestock. 

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00:24:19

Most importantly, because this is Kentucky thoroughbred race horses. So that area is very well known for breeding quality livestock, including horses, big horses, Simon Kenton made the first settlement in the area in 1775 by 1786, John May had acquired the land and Daniel Boone established a trading post and Tavern in the area. The main exports for the area were of course, bourbon, hemp and tobacco by 1787, the settlement was incorporated as Maysville. 

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00:24:59

The town was known for its manufacturing of rod iron fun fact, the iron was sent down river to Cincinnati, Ohio and new Orleans Louisiana. Most of the iron work in these towns came from Maysville. So when you go to new Orleans and you see all the iron work, a lot of that iron came from Maysville. That's where it was made. So that was interesting. That is interesting. I wouldn't think that it would take, it would be that for a way that seems like a pretty big distance, but now I know how they do things later in the 20th century, Henry means Walker made the town home to one of the largest tobacco auction warehouses in the world. 

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00:25:41

One of the largest contributions the town had was being one of the most important stops on the underground railroad since Ohio was a free state. And actually in our next episode, we will actually discuss the underground railroad. Oh, goodie. No, a lot. Not, it's not good. We, we discuss we'll get there, but just know it's coming in the next episode. I know we haven't talked about it yet because we haven't had anything that's been like directly related to it, but we will go through the underground railroad. We'll discuss kind of how they communicated, how a lot of things go. 

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00:26:22

It's nothing. I'll, I'll go ahead and say, this it's nothing bad specifically to the underground railroad. It's something else that happens that I have to explain what the underground railroad was. The underground railroad is a good thing. Yes. And we'll find out the opposite sides of that as well. Okay. So it is an interesting, we will talk about it a lot in that episode. So just to let you all know, I know we haven't discussed it yet. We're getting there, but like I said, since Ohio was a free state. Maysville was the perfect place for slaves to shelter for a long time before going across the Ohio river to freedom, famous abolitionists, Harriet Beecher Stowe briefly visited in 1833 and watched a slave auction in front of the courthouse in Washington, which was the original seat of the county. 

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00:27:09

And now labeled a historic district of Maysville STO included the scene. She witnessed in her novel uncle Tom's cabin, which was published in 1852. Some notable people from the area include Ted Barry, who was the first black mayor of Cincinnati, Ohio, Nick Clooney, journalists' TV host, and father of George Clooney and Thornton Blackburn. He is a former slave whose case in the Canadian courts established the principle that Canada would not return slaves to their quote masters. 

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00:27:56

And thus was the safe Terminus of the underground railroad. So it was his case that made it to where Canada said, even if you were not free, per se, we are not sending you back. Like you, this is a safe place to come, essentially. Yes. And so that was why this town was so important because Kentucky was still, you know, a slave state at this point. And so we're Maysville was, it was right on the Ohio river and Ohio was a free state. So you just hopped it. You know, you want to cross the river to Ohio and you were in a free state now that didn't prevent other things from happening. And we'll discuss that. Like I said, in our next episode, but Thornton Blackburn is the reason why Canada became a safe Haven. 

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00:28:41

So that was very interesting. It's pretty cool. Isaac Bledsoe Desha was born on January 1st, 1802 in Maysville, Kentucky, two Margaret Bledsoe and Joseph Desha. So that's how he got his name. So mom's maiden name is his middle name. Isaac was named after his grandfather and he was one of 13 children. And before you even asked, yes, that is beyond too many children, 

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00:29:14

All survived, infant hood. Like, I mean, I know 

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00:29:18

It didn't say anything about it, but you know, whether that, and it also, I also could not find a definitive number for what order he was in. Like what, because he was born in 1802 and I want to say his parents were married. I didn't write it down, but I want to say his parents were only married in like 1795. So they had only been married for like seven years. So I don't know what number he was 13. Was he 13 of 13? Like, well, I mean, well, he wasn't because he has a brother. We'll talk about him too, but 13. I, I can't, that's a lot of kids, a lot of kids, Isaac was described as a quote, likable boy and presented a generous and amiable disposition. 

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00:30:09

You know what the name Isaac means, go for it. Laughter that is a good name by 1817. He had been attending school for a while when he decided he was going to apprentice as a Tanner with a man named Archibald blowgun, Isaac apprenticed for him for five years, while Isaac worked for Logan, he was a quote, sober industrious and morally upright young man. This sounds like a happy story. It, it takes a turn. Oh dear. For those of you who are not aware of exactly what tanning is, I just thought that this was kind of interesting for a couple of reasons. 

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00:30:53

We'll get into it. You'll find one of these fun facts. Interesting. I do enjoy a fun fact. Tanning is the process of treating the skins and hides of animals to produce leather tanning, hide into leather, involves a process that permanently alters the protein structure of the skin, making it more durable and less susceptible to decomposition. This process can also include coloring the hide during that entire process as well, to get the color down into it before the tanning process can begin, like, sorry guys, if this is not something one here about, but it's nothing about animals specifically. 

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00:31:34

It's just what they do after they get the skin. So they are D haired, decreased D salted and soaked in water, anywhere between six hours and two days, the name of tanning actually came from the use of tannin in this process. Tannen is an acidic chemical compound that is derived from the bark of certain trees around the time of the story and alternative method was used, which was called Chrome tanning, where chromium salts were used instead of natural tannins. And for any wine connoisseurs listening, the tannins found in these trees that they used for tanning are the same tannins you would find in wine. 

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00:32:20

Interesting tannins actually are a chemical compound that protect plants from predators. So when you were drinking wine, it is actually trying to still defend itself from beyond the grave. Cause so some people are allergic to it. Like I'm allergic to tannins. Like I, I get bad, bad headache. They've made the little things you can put in and get the tannins out. So, so yeah, it's actually trying to still defend itself from beyond the grave by November, Elon's agree on to the grave or beyond the Grove. Technically be here all week by November of 1823, Isaac found himself a wife in Cornelia picket Cornelia Cornelia bless the couple met through Isaac sister, Ellen, who was married to Cornelia's brother. 

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00:33:17

Okay. Dan, so their kids will be double first cousins. We'll get into Cornelia to get into the full story of Isaac and how he is relevant to crime. We have to discuss his father, Joseph Desha. Isaac's father built the first brick house in the county on his estate, which was roughly 500 acres, just a casual 500 acres, just a couple Joseph served in the war of 1812 and was a major general of the Kentucky militia. He also served as a member of both branches of the Kentucky legislator and as a representative to Congress for six terms. 

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00:33:58

So he was kind of important. Oh, he gets more important than that. The year after his son's marriage in 1824, Joseph was elected. The governor of Kentucky, the crux of the election was whether or not relief should be provided for the state's lower class. That was still feeling the effects of the panic of 1819. We did discuss this and just to refresh everyone's memory and 18, 18 golden silver had been taken out of circulation and they were replaced with paper currency that was issued by independent banks of the state inflation and chaos ensued. And this was when the banks suddenly came back and said, J K all that money that we loaned you, we need back now. 

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00:34:42

And clearly they were like, we borrowed the money from you. So we don't have it. Oops, Nope. During the election, the voters were split between two naturally formed parties. One was called the relief party who supported laws favorable to those in debt and the anti relief party who supported laws that protected the creditors. Joseph was in the relief party after Joseph was elected relief. Legislators who held majorities in both houses of the general assembly attempted to remove the offending judges from office. Well, they didn't achieve this and they didn't get the two-thirds majority vote to do that. 

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00:35:27

The legislature passed a reorganization act, Abul, abolishing the court of appeals and replacing it with a new court. So basically they said we couldn't get the judges out that we aligned. So we're just going to create a whole other court system. Yeah. 

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00:35:46

Kind of like, oh, mom said, no, let's go 

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00:35:48

Ask dad. Let's go ask dad. Well, the original court continued to claim authority as the court, as the court of last resort and says, I 

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00:36:01

Said what I 

0  

00:36:02

Said during what became known as the old court, new court controversy, both courts operated simultaneously with both claiming legitimacy. There were two major controversies that challenged Joseph's role as governor for Kentucky. One of them was his role in removing Horace Holley as the president of Transylvania university. I'm sorry. Transylvania. Yes. You heard me correctly. Transylvania university does not make the actual translating into 

1  

00:36:36

Like our mascot was a bat. 

0  

00:36:38

Oh my gosh. At this time, I'm sure religious can have some opportunity. Religious conservatives wanted Horace Holly out because they viewed him too liberal, but Joseph had other reasons to get rid of him. So Horace Holley was friends with Henry Clay. And if that name sounds familiar it's because he was currently the secretary of state under John Quincy Adams. Well, Joseph saw Henry Clay as a political enemy and thought that hurting Clay's friend would inadvertently hurt clay as well. 

0  

00:37:19

The second controversy involves his son, Isaac. Oh. And the same year that his father was elected as governor of the state, keep in mind, his dad was elected in 1824, right? Right. 1824. He married in 1823 in the same year that his father was elected 1824. Just, just refreshing people's memory. That is one year later. Just, I mean, Keisha weren't aware it was when you were later. Well, in that time 

1  

00:37:55

He was still floating in wedded bliss. 

0  

00:37:59

You would think, but that is not what happened. How's tryin Isaac separated from his wife. Cornelia was apparently terrified of her husband of only a year. Isaac was staying in Richard Dodges cabin road, roadside Tavern on the border of Fleming county, November 2nd, 1824, Isaac woke up and ate breakfast at the Tavern. He was joined by eight other men. And one of them was named Francis baker. Baker was the editor of the Mississippian newspaper, Natchez, Mississippi. And he was traveling to Trenton, New Jersey to get married. 

0  

00:38:41

During breakfast baker mentioned that he wanted to visit a friend in the area named captain John <em></em> interesting. Last name bigly. Isaac knew where captain Beckley lived. And since Isaac was heading in that direction already, he could show baker where to stop along the way. Like, you know, we're going same way anyways. I'll show you where it is. I got you, bro. You would think, okay, cool. The two men left the Tavern around 8:00 AM to head in the direction of Maysville, Kentucky, Isaac was on his bed. This, this does become important. Isaac was on his bay Mayer, which is your typical horse that you think of. 

0  

00:39:22

It's like the Chestnut brown with the black main, like what you'd normally would think of is like that's unless you think of an all brown horse, usually it's the black mane and like the Chestnut brown colors. That is what is called a bay. Correct. And it's a mayor. So it's a female horse and baker was on a gray mayor with two saddlebags. It's kinda self-explanatory of what a gray mirror is. However, it can be very confusing if you know what a dapple color was at Addepar gray. Cause that's my fav, I don't know if it was a dapple gray. They just said that it was a gray mirror, but the types of horses are important because Baker's horse was Berry recognizable because at this time gray horses were not common. 

0  

00:40:07

Right? So he had already received a lot of attention while he was traveling from Mississippi. Sure. Cause it was a pretty horse gorgeous. A lot of times for people who don't know a lot of times gray horses will also appear white. Sure. Because their skin is what is actually dark. Not their for there you go for, it's not, I don't feel like it's for their hair. Yeah. So yes, the horses become very important. The two men set off for their destinations, but they never stopped at captain Buckley's home around 10:00 AM. 

0  

00:40:48

One of Isaac's neighbors noticed a gray Mayer wandering around without a rider, but still rigged with a bridle and saddle. Now, if you all recall, no saddlebags, if you all recall, we talked about this in our Dominic daily and James Halligan case when they had saw the horse just wandering. Yeah. This was the case for those who don't remember where the innocent Irishmen were pained and later found out it was the witnesses like uncle who did it anyways, I digress, but no one who was worth anything like as a horse owner was leave tack. And that's what that's called for those who aren't aware, who would leave tack on their horse and just let their horse roam around in it. 

0  

00:41:31

Like that's not a thing. The rains, the rains could get caught up under her feet. She could fall or they could get caught in a tree and she might not be able to get free from it. If she were in danger, then you have all the other pieces that can get caught on any number of things and can cause major damage to the horse. If anything were to happen. Remember at this time horses were the main mode of transportation and source of labors on farms. So you would not put a horse in jeopardy because they're your livelihood. Yeah. I mean, they're, they're your most expensive piece of, so your most expensive obsession. Yeah. And piece of equipment, because quite literally you use that horse for MRI. 

0  

00:42:14

Right? And so that's why when this person saw a horse wandering around with stuff on it's like something's wrong, something's happened. This is not good. The neighbor caught the gray Mayer and rode her up the road to see if he could find the rider in case the rider fell off and was injured and needed help, which is what you would think. Obviously instead, the neighbor came upon Isaac's horse and she had on a saddle, but no bridle. So the bridle for those, it goes around their head. Usually it has a bit on it, which goes in their mouth for the rains and everything. But she had a saddle on and no bridle, which is very odd not to mention the blood that was on her neck and her Withers, which Withers on a horse are at the base of the horses neck in between the shoulder blades. 

0  

00:43:08

Think of it is if you're riding on a horse, it's in front of the saddle horn. Yeah. That's their Withers. If you look down, down front. Yeah. That's their Withers. So she had blood all down her neck and on her Withers suspicious a little bit, little bit. The neighbor got his brother to take the horse to Isaac's home in case she got out. But when the brother arrived at Isaac's home, no one was there. So he left the horse on Isaac's property, obviously taking off the saddle and making sure she was safe, like a good horse owner would sure. And went back to his brother and the gray mayor. It wasn't long that the two men and the mayor ran into Isaac walking down the road, carrying two Saddlebacks. 

0  

00:43:54

Hm. The lens that I asked about that weren't on the gray in there. Okay. Isaac identified the horse and said he just accepted the horse as payment for a man who owed him money. Oh, it's convenient. All this can be explained why. Of course, Isaac never mentioned how the two horses seem to get away from him. And he was never asked where the blood came from on his horse. Isaac mounted the gray horse and went home the same day. Isaac arrived at the tannery shop. And when he was asked what was wrong, he just said that he had been kicked by a horse in a totally unrelated incident. He cut his finger almost removing it. 

0  

00:44:37

Ooh, two totally different instances kicked by a horse. Then injuring his hand to totally separate. I mean just what a day different day, what a day. Crazy things happen. Eventually people put two and two together with Isaac injured and baker missing the suspicions of what happened to baker were all put on Isaac. Some people are smarter in yet. You know, you gotta be smarter than the average bear. That's what I always say. Remember how I said that Cornelia was going to leave Isaac. And that's why he was staying at the Tavern. And she was scared of him. And remember how I said there was no one at the house. 

0  

00:45:18

Well, Isaac's mood continued to drastically shift and Cornelia who was pregnant at the time, moved out of the couple's home and refused to return. She later gave birth to their daughter and she never returned to Isaac. And he never met his daughter. That is very sad. It might have been the best thing to happen to Cornelia. Well, I mean, yes, but just that, that is, that is a sad situation. Over the next week, items were found along the roadway between the Tavern and Maysville. Just weird. What kind of items? 

0  

00:45:58

A bloody glove. Oh, a pair of saddlebags with the bottom cutout and Isaac's missing horse bridal weird. Then on November 8th, three men found a man's body, half covered biolog around 50 yards off the road. Hmm. These men, let me tell you ahead of their time, these men, because they did not touch anything. Not that that mattered back then, but now they ever come upon a crime scene. Don't fish or anything. Don't don't move the bond. Don't touch anything. Just go, go get someone. And so that's what they did. 

0  

00:46:39

They alert, alerted the local authorities who came and recovered the body. Here's a bit of a trigger warning as cause we are going to discuss what happened physically to him. It's not great. Obviously it's a murder, but it's not completely, I don't know how to explain it. It's not extremely gorier. She's going to let me hear it. Yes. So I'm going to start that in a second. So skip now, the body had been partially stripped of clothing and the area that it was found was right around the spot that Isaac's neighbor had seen him walking the day the horses were loose. The body had been beaten with a blunt object, roughly four to five times bludgeoning his head. 

0  

00:47:25

This is sorry, guys. This is the really, really bad part. His throat had been slit deeply and severed his wind pipe. Lastly, he had very unusual stab wounds that were square-shaped. He was only wearing a shirt socks and a single glove. Yeah. He's looking at me. Once the authority searched the area, they found pantaloons a coat, several changes of clothes, several pieces of paper with the name baker written on them, a hat, a horse bridle, a well-lit suspiciously, similar to Issac's and a riding whip with a heavy handle. 

0  

00:48:06

That was very similar to Isaac's that he usually had with his horse. Weird. It also turned out that Isaac carried around a dagger with him that matched the unusual marks on the victim's body. Remember those square shaped marks weirdly enough matches. 

1  

00:48:24

How does a dagger make a square shape, mark? 

0  

00:48:26

I think it was the Hilton. 

1  

00:48:28

Okay. That makes more sense. I was thinking a square dad 

0  

00:48:34

Once the body was brought, which I wonder if that's how he almost cut his finger off because he was holding it from the wrong end. So once the body was brought back to town, captain Bickley positively identified the body as Francis baker, the circumstantial evidence against Isaac kept piling up, especially when people figured out that Isaac had the gray mayor and he was claiming it was his. Then there was the quote new gold watch. Isaac was wearing the new clothes he was wearing and a bit of money that Isaac all of a sudden had and people took notice. 

0  

00:49:19

How do you explain all of these things? Most notable being, how do you explain that you now have this horse? Right? I sick please. Isaac said that he randomly came upon two men who were selling the horse and he didn't notice that it was stolen property. Even though he had been riding with baker, just a couple of hours earlier. And remember everyone knew what this horse looked like because she was, you know, unusual for the time, whatever is fine. And wasn't his original story that he took the horse as a form of payment because someone owed him a debt. So his story's already changed. 

0  

00:50:00

Then he was asked about the, watch the money in the clothes. No answer. I guess he just came upon those as well. I don't know. Weird, weird. Okay. I've never just walked up upon a pile of money. It would be nice. 

1  

00:50:15

But if you're good, if you're going to be bad and do bad things, you can't be stupid. I mean, I'm not saying people go out and do bad things and be smart about covering up. 

0  

00:50:29

Come on. Don't be stupid. No Isaac was arrested and tried for murder. And on January 31st, 1825, the case was so sensationalized that there had to be a change in venue for the trial. The defense was worried that Isaac wouldn't get a fair trial and Maysville, his father hired the best defense attorney. He could find they presented an interesting argument for all of the circumstantial evidence that he got 

1  

00:50:57

Amnesia. He bumped his head, 

0  

00:50:59

The personal items that were found by Baker's body that belonged to Isaac. Obviously they were planted, obviously 

1  

00:51:08

Somebody's out to get him. 

0  

00:51:09

Then they said, even though baker had been stabbed, there weren't any signs of blood on the ground, near the body or on the road as for the death itself. Are you ready for this one? I'm ready. You're not ready. Not ready. The days had been unusually warm for November and wild boars were known to be a menace in the area. But here's my question. If wild boars were to blame, then why did Baker's body not show any signs of being ravaged by animals when it had been there for six days? 

1  

00:51:53

And I'm just saying, cause while blower is able to tear a buyer 

0  

00:51:56

Up, like tear it 

1  

00:51:58

Up. I may have you not seen ODL or 

0  

00:52:02

Boars are absolutely insane. I'm just saying they will eat you. They will, they will eat you. So after this wild, this wild, wild boar. Yes. Story, the story of the bores, which while punctured and they are also wild. Yes. The jury went to deliberate. They were barely gone an hour before coming back with a guilty verdict and death sentence. 

1  

00:52:30

I mean, is it because they were laughing for so long? Is that why it took them that long? Because I mean, that sounds a little 

0  

00:52:37

Immediately Isaac's defense attorney appealed the verdict and sentence. The grounds of the appeal were based on jury tampering. The sheriff stayed with the jury during deliberation and he watched over the jury, Dan, a majority of the jurors received anonymous notes, threatening to burn an effigy of them if they did not convict, which for anybody who doesn't know what an FD is, a basically just like, looks like the person think of like <em></em> yeah. And they burn it, but it's not a food at all, but yet don't don't make funerals. That's. Hmm. 

0  

00:53:17

But so to get into kind of a couple of things. So for those who aren't aware of what jury tampering means, cause we haven't talked jury tampering simply put it is the crime of attempting to influence the decisions of a jury throughout a trial via private communication or contacting a juror regarding matters relating to the case being tried. Yes. That's sad. Don't do it. Right? So you cannot like the attorneys can't can't try and like pull a juror to the side and talk or anything. Or, and actually this happened in the Scott Peterson, Lacey Peterson, because one of the jurors, they had to go through metal detectors. 

0  

00:54:02

You know, like when you go into the court house, you have to go through all that. And a juror was coming in because they weren't sequestered, which sequestered just means that they have to like go to a hotel room at night. They can't go back to their families or anything. And I don't believe they were sequestered or anything, but they were, this juror was coming into the courthouse and it was just in line waiting to go. And then he saw someone standing behind him or in front of him. I don't recall. And just said something like you having a good morning. Like it was something very benign. It was Scott Peterson's brother. Oh no. 

0  

00:54:42

And someone just saw it and let out the guy got pulled off the jury. Well, so it's, which I think was a bit ridiculous. I mean, I mean, I get it, it could be like code or something like that. Like I get that. But, but it just in like passing of like, oh, crazy morning. Right. And I think that's what it was because there were so many people outside that it was like hard to get in. And so I think he said something like crazy morning. Right. And like benign just walked in and then a ger like reported him. But with it being such a high profile case, I mean, I get it. I mean, yeah. 

0  

00:55:22

So it was, it was just it's it's insane. So that's what jury tampering is as for appealing a conviction. So we haven't talked about appealing convictions either. So we're learning a lot about the court system. Hopefully I'm getting all of this. Right. I know Marlin was, can you say, I know, I know of lawyers that listened to this podcast and attorneys, lawyers, attorneys, Esquires whatever you would like to be called. So hopefully I'm getting all of this. Right? I did look it up. I did make sure I tried to explain it in the best I tried to not make it legalees. So as for appealing a conviction, this is a request from, this is a request to a higher court, also called an appellate court. 

0  

00:56:14

And appellate court is always a higher court to review and change the decision of a lower court. This allows the defendant to the conviction or the sentence. If an appeal is successful, the initial charges are restored. And the case will either go back to the lower court to be tried again. Or in some cases, the trial would not be tried again. But basically it just, it says like JK to that previous trial, it's just like, oh, undo, like, like you just undo something on your computer. You're like fondue, like click that little and everything just goes back to the beginning. 

0  

00:56:57

That's when you would get a whole new jury, you would get a whole new, like everything. That's I believe that's also when you can submit new evidence that you didn't have in the previous trial, like you can do a lot of things like that. If it's yeah. And this is here. If it's not tried in the lower court again, it is due to the higher court finding that there was insufficient evidence to retry the defendant. Does that make sense? Say it one more time. If, if it's not tried in the lower court again, it is typically due to the higher court finding that there is insufficient evidence to retry. 

0  

00:57:42

Gotcha. Defendant. Gotcha. So basically the higher court is saying one we're appealing this two, you don't have what you need to do this in the first place. So you're not going to try it again. I don't know how common that is, how uncommon that is. And then of course, if your appeal is denied, then your appeal is denied and the conviction stands still Sadie. Yes. So the appeal was approved really by judge, like is about, he's about to lose it by judge George peg leg, Shannon. His nickname was George peg or it was so he was judge Peglegs like his nickname was Peglegs they only have one, like, do you only have one? 

0  

00:58:31

Like yes. And he had a peg like, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. So to lose it in a war, I don't know. But Joe had to have judge peg leg. His name was piglet. Judge peg leg was approved. Judge peddler. It's not easy to say either. Sorry, it's not sunny. But they called him peg leg yall. Judge. I wonder if he used like, did he have a gallon of food in one? Like, was it a gavel? And that's so bad. That's so bad. 

0  

00:59:13

Wait, right. No, we never, we never claimed to be on that was bad, but y'all could, could you imagine it's 

1  

00:59:21

Kind of like imagining the birds floating on the squirrels. You can't once it's there. It's just there. He's like, hold on. Like puts his robes up 

0  

00:59:35

So bad. I'm sorry, like in the powdered wig and everything. Oh gosh. So I told y'all we was going to lose it. Judge. 

1  

00:59:45

Peglegs 

0  

00:59:47

All rise for judge peg leg, like to make all of that in the court. But they made sure that it was very important to know. It was like, 

1  

00:59:59

Who's the judge? What, what judges your case school before I got paid, 

0  

01:00:04

I got the peg leg. Got old. Peggy. I love it. 

1  

01:00:13

I love it. I love it. You're 

0  

01:00:16

Welcome. They put Judd peg. They put George peg leg Shannon. And I knew like, clearly it was important because they put it in like official documents 

1  

01:00:29

So much later and made sure that we knew that he was called peg leg. Oh, 

0  

01:00:35

It was in picture. No, this time we don't have a lot of photos at this period of time. We're getting to a period where we're starting to get more cheerful. Peggy and Peggy. <em></em> beautiful. Garlic sisters are performing and Angelica analyzer up front. 

0  

01:01:14

. That's what she has to say. And Peggy's 

1  

01:01:24

Whole, you say to my mind, we need to recreate this 

0  

01:01:31

And Peggy someone, please make a t-shirt judge peg leg and peg. Oh, oh gosh. I'm sorry. I couldn't, I couldn't resist though. That was great. You're welcome. Anyway, it took until September to obtain a new jury that hadn't heard about the case. Somehow again, Isaac was convicted and sentenced to death. Again, the case was overturned on another technicality because the prosecution, are you ready for this? 

1  

01:02:17

What did they come up with now? 

0  

01:02:21

Just wait. The prosecution failed to state that Baker's murder took place in Fleming county. Like the indictment had indicated, oh my heavens, the prosecution argued that because the change of venue had been granted the place of the actual murder wasn't of importance. The local papers had a field day claiming that the trials were a farce and that they were rigged from the start due to Isaac's father. Well, the Winchester Gazette said it would seem that justice had either a bit to do to Kentucky or that her judges are the most corrupt and desperate men living. 

0  

01:03:11

Oh, well there's some strong words there down a leg. So knocked them down a pig. Oh no, no look, sorry. Oh, it's getting late. We're we're recording later. Yeah, we are. So it took until February of 1826 to pick another jury for a third trial y'all he clearly did this and he was not smart about it. Would you like to guess what happened? He was convicted and sentenced and sentenced to death. 

0  

01:03:52

You were correct. Ding, ding, ding, ding. So this is a bit of a, okay. This is a trigger warning. If one, I really didn't care to read about this. So I really don't really want to say, but it it's important to the case and important to the story. So I do have to discuss it also. It, it involves discussion of suicide. So if you don't want to hear that as well, but it's also just gross. Like I'm sorry. 

0  

01:04:33

He, he is alive. Cause he didn't pass away at this time. So a trigger warning, if you don't want to hear that and just trust me that if you were at all squeamish, skip ahead. Like just trust me. Five months later, Isaac attempted to complete suicide in his cell by slitting his throat. His attempt was nearly completed, but the surgeon made it to him in time. During the surgery, the doctor inserted a silver tube to reinforce his severed windpipe. Isaac would only be able to speak in a whisper and the tube had to be regularly removed to be cleaned and re inserted. 

0  

01:05:21

Each time this happened, Isaac said it felt like he was being suffocated. Well, that is disk. 

1  

01:05:28

That's disgusting. And I hate that he had to go through that. 

0  

01:05:33

Yes. I mean it is terrible. It, it, it's just, it's just gross. He's a little weasel. Well, his conviction was appealed again. 

1  

01:05:46

I mean, here's the thing. I think that dad's the one that's in charge of all of this. Isaac's like, Hey dad, I did this junk. 

0  

01:05:55

We'll get there. We'll get there. His dad doesn't have too much to do with any of it right now. Okay. So his conviction was appealed again and due to Isaac's poor health, the doctor signed an order stating that keeping Isaac in jail was endangering his life. Isaac was released on bond pending the approval of the appeal. It was over a year after the third appeal had taken place in March of 1827, that defense attorneys tried to have the case dismissed altogether on procedural grounds, the request was denied. 

0  

01:06:36

They filed for dismissal again in June stating that the court had failed to seat a full panel of impartial jurors denied again. Well, both of these requests kind of poked to the Bayer per se. And the court decided that Isaac was healthy enough to withstand jail. And he was taken back into custody instead of being out on bond. This is where the second controversy of governor Joseph Desha comes in on the same day. The court tried to put Isaac back in jail. The governor stood up in the courtroom and issued his son and conditional, pardon this? 

0  

01:07:21

I put, this was not good for old governor Joey. I 

1  

01:07:25

Mean, 

0  

01:07:27

Wow. Some say that he resigned as governor immediately, but according to official records, he did serve the rest of his political term. He never inserted himself into politics. Again, he retired to his farm and he died in 1824. But that is the second controversy is he issued his son an unconditional. Pardon? 

1  

01:07:53

When everybody knew he did it. Yeah, it was 

0  

01:07:55

Obvious he did it. 

1  

01:07:56

Oh, I mean, I understand that you love your son and it's hard to think for, I mean, I have nephews and nieces and I would hate to think 

0  

01:08:05

Anything negative 

1  

01:08:09

That's bad. I mean, and it's obvious that he did it. 

0  

01:08:12

That's what's that, that's what God, I mean, it's very obvious. Isaac left Kentucky after his pardon and traveled down the Mississippi river. He allegedly tried to attempt to Rob a flatboat near Vicksburg, Mississippi, but the skipper on the boat knew Isaac and he just got a pardon and asked why Isaac was trying to Rob him. I Isaac confessed of his, you know, misfortunes of living on the run since his pardon, the skipper convinced Isaac to try and turn over a new leaf and said he would give him a ride to new Orleans. 

0  

01:08:52

Isaac agreed and accepted the ride. Before he left the skipper. He said that he plans to travel far away, changes his name and have a fresh start. Once in new Orleans, he changed his name to John Parker. He met a man from Ohio named Thomas early, who was traveling to Texas. Isaac noticed that early had quite a bit of money on him. And once early reached Texas. He planned on buying several mules and horses and taking them back to Ohio. Isaac decided to join early. And once in San Felipe bay day, Austin, the two left on horseback going to San Antonio. 

0  

01:09:39

But once Isaac reached Gonzales, he was by himself. Now he continued to San Antonio and lost quite a bit of his newly acquired money gambling. He headed back to San Felipe bay and once he arrived suspicions arose that Isaac had something to do with the disappearance of early a few days after earliest clothes were found in a Creek nearby, and then they found scattered skeletal remains. Then a weird thing happened. Oh dear. Remember I told you there are twists and turns. Yeah. A man living in San fleabane named Thomas Duke Marshall noticed the man going by John Parker. 

0  

01:10:26

This man just happen to be the nephew of chief justice. John Marshall, who was the fourth chief justice of the U S from 1801 to 1835 served a long time, 34 years. And he was from Kentucky. Oh, no. Young Marshall also noticed that the man he recognized happened to be breathing through a silver tube and couldn't speak over a whisper. Oh yeah. So now you see why I had to put that in. Cause I didn't want to, but I had to. 

0  

01:11:05

Oh, cause he still had to take that thing out. I'll come back to that as well. He confronted Isaac and Isaac made a full confession. He admitted he was using a false identity and that he murdered Thomas early. There wasn't a jail in San Felipe bay. So the local blacksmith said he could construct irons to restrain Isaac until the trial. The trial for the murder of Thomas early was set for August 14th, 1828. But the day before the trial, Isaac Desha died of a fever after his death, a legend arose. 

0  

01:11:48

He in fact hadn't died and that his funeral was staged. He actually escaped to Hawaii, married a native woman and fathered several children with her in 1956, Andrew forest mere was writing in, he was studying the Filson club history, quarterly, whatever that is, but he debunked this legend. He documented that the first dashes in Hawaii did not arrive until nearly two decades after Isaac Dash's death. The Desha in Hawaii was John Lang Hern Desha, who was actually the grandson of Joseph Desha and the nephew of Isaac. 

0  

01:12:41

Ah, this Dasha was extremely respectable and he helped establish Queens hospital, which is actually back then. I believe it was the Queens medical center, which is the largest nonprofit hospital in Honolulu, Hawaii. And he worked at the hospital until his death. So while there were dashes that moved there and they were related, it was not, it had nothing to do with Isaac. And it was a quite a while after, I mean he had 12 siblings, so there's no timing, you know, out of relationships fee. 

0  

01:13:23

So that is the story of Isaac Desha. So probably the N the fever came from an infection from T tube. That's what I think, because it said he had, he either had to remove it or he had to have it removed. I don't remember what I put for that. Cause that, that would matter. It just said that the tube had to regularly be removed, cleaned and reinserted. So either way, if he was doing it himself, I mean, you're traveling there. Are you going to clean it? How are you going to sterilize that? Yeah. So that's what I think. I think that, that, that, that was happening. 

0  

01:14:04

So he confessed. He's like, I mean, I'm about to die anyway. I don't know. I think probably so. I bet he, I think a possibility, but yeah, I think that's, I think that's eventually how he died. He just got an infection somewhere in his body. I mean the things in your throat. I mean, what are you <em></em> oh, here's a fun. Would you rather, I don't 

1  

01:14:27

Know. I don't, I don't probably neither. 

0  

01:14:31

Would you rather have a silver tube that you can only speak above a whisper or a Peck luck? 

1  

01:14:44

I already fall with two working legs. Let's just say peg leg. 

0  

01:14:49

Hey, it could be, it could be useful. You never know you could be a pirate AR Hey, I probably would go with Pegler too. Yes. Because 

1  

01:15:00

I like to sing. 

0  

01:15:02

Yeah. That the whole 

1  

01:15:05

And the end, the tube and the having to pull, I mean, I'm never intimidated or anything like that. I just, that weirds me out. 

0  

01:15:11

I mean, I've had endoscopy, but I'm at anything, but I'm asleep. Yeah. So I don't, you know, but 

1  

01:15:19

I've never had any of those things. I mean, I've had a mole taken off of my head and that was local. And I said, that's it. That's all. I never had 

0  

01:15:27

It taken out and process Years ago. Yeah. I know. I remember we have a website we did where you can find any and all owing, you see information you were looking for. It is one nation under crime.com. Yes. We are one nation under crime on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. And at O N U C pod on Twitter. I'm on Twitter. A pretty good bit guys. So she is, come join us on Twitter and we can talk. We can chat. Let me know if you love our podcast as much as we do. And we know that you do, please follow us, subscribe, do whatever it is. 

0  

01:16:07

Recommend us to your friends and family and injures in 

1  

01:16:12

The waiting room 

0  

01:16:13

Always. And if you feel like it, leave us a five star review on apple podcasts. As I said before, or five stars only, we only accept perfection here. And if you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all 

1  

01:16:26

Will not take a four 

0  

01:16:30

Perfection or nothing. We do have a Patrion. If you would like to help with the cost of making and hosting the show. Also, like we said before, the USBs episodes that are coming out, they are coming out from now until the end of the year. But however, they will move to Patrion starting January 20, 22. And I we're, we won't do one every week then, but the episodes that come out for the month of December will still remain on the normal feed. Just any future episodes. We'll move over to a 

1  

01:17:07

Little taste like what you see, 

0  

01:17:09

What, what will be coming to you. And there's some pretty fun tiers as far as Patrion goes that you can join. They have fun little names that I came up with. So it's very, it's fun. You get to decide, you get to decide where your loyalties lie. We'll say that you can be a founding father. You can be a Patriot or you can be a loyalist. Very fun. They're all different tiers. So, and on there it describes like what each tier includes, like all that kind of stuff. So go there, just go to Patrion search for one nation under crime. We appreciate you guys listening to this week's episode. 

0  

01:17:50

I hope you enjoyed it. It's a very interesting episode to research a lot of information. So we will see you here. Same time, different crime next week, and Peggy. And remember there isn't always Liberty and justice for all. Unless you're the one with a peg leg. That's bang the gavel, get body.