1832: The Duffy's Cut Railroad Murders

You were listening to one nation under crime, a chronological historical, true crime podcast. Each week we go through our nation's history and discuss one case from each year, starting in 1800. I'm Kayla and I'm Leah. We are now two days out. We're recording new year's day. So we are we're new year Rish fresh into the new year. Right, right in it. I was the first 

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00:00:32

Person Kayla saw this new year. 

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Very true. We were supposed to record earlier. And I even, I told my boyfriend because I was laying in bed and doorbell rang and we had, you know, new year's Eve stuff last night. And I even looked at him and I was like, that's a little later when I was like, I didn't order anything from Amazon. So I didn't know why the doorbell was ringing. And then I remembered, oh no, what time is it? Because someone is headed off to the happiest place on tomorrow. Yes. I'm so 

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Excited. I got my nails. Did 

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I got some? She said she got some mini Bose and some Mickey ears on her nails 

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Many years. Cause they have bows. True. 

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You'll have to see, I'm curious to see how many hidden Mickeys you'll find because you know about the hidden Mickeys. So you'll have to figure out this is guys. This is Leah's first time going to St. Paul's 

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And people that know me are totally shocked because I'm such a, 

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I'm very shocked that you've not been before. Cause I've been at least five times maybe to Disney. 

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I'm such a Disney nerd too, like Disney trivia. And my family is like, it's vicious. It's third down. My sister worked. We, you know, we're from Birmingham in the area. And the Galleria mall was one of the original 13 stores, Adam. One of the original 13 and my sisters, My sister worked there like through college and even through law school, I probably saw her a 

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Lot. 

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I love just one of the desks. I know. But now it's, it's not the Disney store anymore. And it hurts them hard. Course. I don't go to the Galleria anymore. No, I don't think things go down the 

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Gala. It's 

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It's it's it's not the same as it used to be. 

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It's not the same as it used to be. I will say that they're doing a lot more. They're revamping our model. They're like making it more. So we've got like, we have two local malls in the area and both of them have a different vibe to them. And that's a good way to put that. 

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Excuse me, Claire. I'm I not, I'm sorry. Claire's 

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Deciding she's needs all of Leah's attention. I'm sorry. So we have one mall that is like the big mall that we have. Then we have another mall that's like smaller. It's more quaint. Like, but everything in it just keeps closing because it's not convenient, I guess the best way to say it, but it's a nice, like, it's a nice mall. Like it always has been, but it's always been the small mall. And so I think our bigger one in the area is moving more towards like boutique style shopping. They're pushing more stuff in that direction and trying to like revamp the 

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00:03:29

Mall. But I think the area is 

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Just, I know, and which I hate because I liked the mall. I really liked the mall. And there's have you seen all the posts where you can like see abandoned malls and they're really cool. It's kind of creepy, but cool. At the same time. There's one. So there's one mall that like a lot of people I don't come from me, people I don't watch the show and I know Noli a probably is not watch the show, but stranger things on Netflix 

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To me, how I try to, 

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I have not watched 

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It at all. 

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And 

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Sister and her boys love it. Well, 

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The mall that they are filming in right now is just down the road from my boyfriend's family. And it is an abandoned mall that like, it's still decorated for like seventies, eighties. And because that's where like stranger things is yeah. Kind of set. And so they have been using that mall. Fun, not fun, but fun ish fact for whoever there was a murder in that mall 

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And 

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Fun, I'm saying like for people, will we know I put that in our Christmas posts for anyone who didn't see 

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Me 

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Chuckle, but yeah, there was a, there was a murder in that mall and it's kind of crazy, but yeah, it's the same, all that stranger things is filmed in. I feel like malls could be really cool if they made like malls can make a comeback. And I feel like if they would just put me on the board, I could make this be in charge. 

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Like 

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How fun would it add? Or just put like a roller skating rink in the mall 

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Because those are my good, I come back in it. 

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They should, first of all, first of all, nothing better than a good roller. 

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Now when I was in middle school, that was it. It was a long 

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Time. Oh, sorry. I 

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Will cut that. That was the thing to go to the roller skating So much. I never had anybody to skate with for a couple skate. 

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I would have skated 

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With you. Hey, thanks. But yeah, I'm not a very good skater either. And it was so sad. I got roller blades like roller blades. Well, I'm not so good at it. I'm really not so good at anything that requires coordination. I'm good at a lot of things, but anything that requires coordination is not one of those things that I'm good at. 

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We all know our strong suits. 

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No, no, your limits know your limits. And my limits are, you know, coordination things. And, but anyway, I got rollerblades and, and I tried, I tried, I mean, I do get out and try like I've, I've tried roller main ice skating. And I try, I try cause I skating's hard. It's fun. It is hard. And I mean, I try and it's fun and I get out and I try and, and I just, I fail, but I try. But then my brother who is much younger than me, you know, grew into my rollerblades and buddy, he was just zipping back and forth. And so we'd go skating and he would like skate backwards and hold my hands and pull me around. And I was like, Hey, this is good. 

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00:06:39

I, so when I worked, if anybody that's listening has ever, and this is kind of like a very specific situation. If anybody's listening, whoever has worked at a best buy, like in, in late high school to early college years, you will know best buy is like a hub and them saying this in the nicest way, because I worked there. So please understand that as well. It's like this nice little hub of weirdos like everybody has, but it's true. Like everybody has their own cork, like everybody. 

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00:07:21

And everybody's very different from one another because you work in different departments. And so you're kind of like good at what you're good at. Well, I worked at a, I worked at best buy and there was a guy that works there. His name's Chris. I don't know if he listens or his wife listens, but if he, he knows who he is, he was like competition rollerskate. And so he was like good at 

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Rollers and impresses. And so 

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We, we would go roller skating. There's this place on like two 80 in Birmingham. And we would go roller skating there occasionally. And it was like, he was amazing at rollerskating. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. So good at it. But yeah, so it, we, I worked with such a weird group of people. Like it was just so such a weird, like conglomerate of weirdos. It truly was like the breakfast club. Like everybody 

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Was just very, or the princess. Oh, 

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I don't know. I was probably more emo. I would be the princess anyways were places that you work out sometimes. Like when you're in high school and like early college, you just look back at it and you're like, how did they let us run anything? Like 

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00:08:35

I worked at a bank and at the Y MCA, 

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I worked at a pizza place. I worked, I worked a lot of places, but I worked a lot or retail, but best buy. I worked out for quite a while, which is funny because my boyfriend needed something the other day, like right before Christmas. And he was like, we need to go to best buy. And I was like, I haven't been up best buy. I don't even know how long. And we walked in and it was one of those things. Like I have scent memories and I walked in and I just went, oh, and he goes, what? And I go, why does every, and now that I say it, if you are a frequent or of best buy or multiple, they all have certain smell. They all smell the same in schools. All of them schools smell the same too. Yes. 

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00:09:19

It's the weirdest thing. But there's like certain places and best buy is one of them. Like I can walk in. And I know, and I, because I worked there for so long too, but it was like, I walked in and I went, whoa, 

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00:09:32

You know, the best smell, the best smell and old books to zero library, an old bookstore or library. 

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00:09:40

Oh, I love the smell of a good, good book. Old books. Oh my God. So you'll figure out when you go and you'll see. So I am quite the Disney nerd when it comes to Disney world may or may not have helped Leah this past week with some of her traveling to make sure she's going to the right places and to ensure that she is making the most of her time. Because I, like, I had to tell her, you need to, you need to go. Like she was asking me if she needed to go to the parks and extra day. And I was like, oh, 

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00:10:13

Okay. Is that really a question? 

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00:10:18

But Lee has never been there before. So she doesn't 

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Know all the messy things at the parks. 

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00:10:25

This is the place you need to go here. She had like some reservations at a bunch of different places. And I was like, oh, like I would go here because this place is really, really good. Or like, I would go here because this one's good. I don't understand how Disney does their mealtimes, but whatever. That's neither here nor there. Disney's weird about it. But on main street in Disney world, they pump smells and it smells like popcorn and cotton candy and something else. But there's all, there's certain rides that have smells to them. And like, which I think is a really neat idea. Well, and some of them are not intentional. Like, that's just how the ride like pirates of the Caribbean doesn't have a true smell, but it's like, because they use like Canon powder and like, they, because you're in water like you, which is a really cool ride, but it like has a smell to it. 

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00:11:21

Like the haunted mansion has a smell to it and it has, oh, this is the best ride of all time. But you either love haunted mansion or you don't, I, you have no choice. I love it. And it's because it's just such a fun, it's like a fun immersive ride. And they're like movie was created from the ride. It's one of the only things that it's like gone backwards that way. Like there is the ride than the movie, which is such a movie. I've talked about it for one of Eddie. Murphy's best performances. I love in my opinion. I mean, mushi come on. So 

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00:11:58

Funny you dishonor. 

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00:12:02

I'm so good. But the haunted mansion has like a certain, it's like a musty 

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00:12:08

Smell of candles. 

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00:12:10

Oh. And I've gotten them. So spaceship earth has a certain smell. It's an Epcot. You'll probably you and I like kind of similar things. You'll probably like spaceship is inside for those who don't know the names of the rides. Like I do say shippers is what is inside the golf ball. Yes. Even though I know that's not what it is, but it's inside the golf ball, but it's a lot of fun and it has a certain smell. And I had a candle for quite a while that smells like spaceship earth, because it's like, it smells like an old library and like burning paper and like a bunch of different things. But yeah. There's lines of candles that smell and they'll smell. They have hotel candles, candles that smell like your hotel and all the hotels have their own spill. 

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00:12:52

It's like, Disney's the best I've told Leah the other day. I was like, I just need to be a Disney travel agent because, and you know, I know everything 

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00:13:03

Yeah. To, to get more information happy to, 

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00:13:06

And it help you. And I will tell everybody, I tell everybody the same thing, my hack for magic kingdom. And most people do know this, but most people don't. If you go to magic kingdom, go to the left every time because mentally people automatically go to the right. 

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00:13:22

People are right-handed. 

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00:13:23

And so if you, if you go, you'll end up at some point catching up to like ride times to where they start to like increase in the middle. But if you start at the left and go counter, or you go clockwise instead of counterclockwise, then you will be able to ride more things because of ride time, spot. 

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00:13:44

Yeah. What's funny. My mother's left-handed and I'm right-handed and we went to, oh gosh. If the Vango experience comes to your city, I think we talked about go to it. I don't, I don't know if we did or not. I know we would not have talked about it. We did talk about it did. Okay. Because mom turned to the left and I turned to the right and we ended up bumping into each other. It was so funny. So anyway, 

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00:14:11

It's so yeah. If you ever go to Disney world, or if you ever want to know where to eat at any place, I can tell you exactly where to go. I can tell you, I can tell you the places that I've been, that I would go, he, like there was one place that it is good. Don't get me wrong. It is a very good place to eat, but Leah, I know Leah's taste and food. And I know, and I was like me, like it's okay. It's more for the experience than it is the food. And personally, if I'm spending that much on food, I want the food to be good. Not just the experience like in the food was good, but it was just very like, which now I can mean if me and my boyfriend ever go to Disney world, it's going to be a nightmare. 

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00:14:54

Cause he's a cook. And so he's very, 

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00:14:57

He's a kind of sewer. 

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00:14:58

I know. And he getting him to Disney world would probably be a feat in and of itself because he is a not, I mean, like I'm not a crowd person, but I can be a crowd person for dancing. Right. And you're also going to Harry Potter world. So I'm telling me I should just be in Orlando traveling. 

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00:15:18

I mean, I have my Luna shirt. I'm so, so excited. It's not a Raven call, but I am a Luna fan just because she's so great. I, 

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00:15:27

I have decided to go off of my house as like my Enneagram, like how, you know, you have certain Enneagrams, but like you have wings. So like, you're this, but you're like, I'm, I think I'm a one wing too, which is very accurate. I think I'm, 

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00:15:46

You're a 

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00:15:47

Two wing nine or you're a nine wing to it's. Something like that. But you're, you've got a two in yours. 

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00:15:53

I'm a non too. 

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00:15:56

And so I'm, I'm just, I've now come to the conclusion and I'm happy with it that I'm just, I'm a Raven claw wing. Slitherin I'm fine with it. It's true. I'm fine with it. Meaning 

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00:16:11

I'm a helpful puff. 

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00:16:16

You were helpful. 

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00:16:17

But you know what? I took the, you know, you can do the Pottermore and you can say like what your alternate house? And it was right from call. I could see that, but you are a football. I am, 

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00:16:28

I'm a slither. And truly, I think that my Raven claw, 

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00:16:33

She's still analytical. 

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00:16:35

Yeah. I think that's what overcomes my slither into nurses, but I'm okay with that. Blue and green is two of my best colors. Some yellows, not my color. Neither is shred and that's fine. That's fine. I do not. I'm not a yellow period. My skin tone does not. Yeah, I don't, I don't have it. No. I have a Juul skin tone color, like Juul tones look good on me. So 

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00:16:57

Everything we have gone off on a tangent first day. Sorry. 

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00:17:04

And we have two other things at the top this week one, well three things one. Yes, I do sound sick. I apologize. Immensely. It would have been way worse if we recorded the other night because I had no voice. So yeah. I apologize for my weird sounding voice. And I'm sorry if it annoys people, you just have two episodes to get through. No two we'll end with the happy thing. A second. Number two. Yes. Y'all were supposed to get a bonus episode this week. No, you did not get your bonus episode. Why Kayla sick? I'm very sad. And I had to prioritize. 

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00:17:43

Yes. I told her she better get her honey. 

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00:17:47

No drink. Did you drink tea? I had it. I didn't really want, my boyfriend had made this garlic honey. And I took a few spoonfuls of it, which not on food. Not great, but because honey is like really good for your system. And so as garlic, it did help my voice pretty well. So well that's, that was good. So yes. You were supposed to have an episode come out this week. I apologize. I'll make it up to you all somehow. And then our last thing are happy for the lady Leah doesn't know about this yet. Cause I didn't tell her about it. 

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00:18:27

I thought the happy was that I went to didn't. I got to go to Disney because I was really happy that it's true with my husband. We, 

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00:18:33

We get to shout out one of our Patriot homes for a second time because they increase their poetry on their nation. So shout out to our friend, Ryan in Iowa. Hi Ryan. Yeah. The grade is Ryan sent us a very nice, very kind message on Christmas Eve and may or may not have cried in my 

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00:19:03

Message. Been like, oh my gosh, 

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00:19:06

I got very emotional very quickly. And even to where my boyfriend was like, oh my gosh, what's going on? 

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00:19:12

And she wasn't sick or anything like she was really just overcome. Does not get overcome. 

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00:19:18

No, 

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00:19:19

Like she didn't even give me a hug when I gave her her Christmas present, which was perfect. And I'm still a little bit miffed, but 

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00:19:24

It's fine. <em></em> that was what Clara was for. That's what she was. 

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00:19:30

I did not give her the password. I gave it to you. I gave you a Luna. 

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00:19:33

Yeah, that's true. Whatever my animals are, my proxy. They're the ones they give the attention. So I'm not a touch. I don't like to be touched weird cactus. I am prickly Raven claw. So, you know, we have an interesting case this week. 

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00:19:56

Always interesting. That's why you pick up. 

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00:19:59

Yes. And we'll go into why this one's interesting a little bit later, but we are going to touch on some themes we have in the past. 

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00:20:10

I like it when they know I'm not going to lie. 

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00:20:15

When I say some of the sources or when I say one of the sources of particular you'll know what direction it goes and I have 

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00:20:22

Bones set up. 

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00:20:25

We will talk about bones. Yes. But it's very, very interesting. And it's very intriguing and there's a reason as long 

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00:20:32

As it's not like, you know, Hey, check out these bones 

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00:20:37

Next week's episode guys. I'll make sure that Leah doesn't say anything because it's very intriguing. And it's very interesting. So we'll get to that. You'll you'll just hang on for next week. So it's fun time. So I'll have to our sources for this week, we have Irish central. That should be your hint for the direction that this is going. The Washington post and hidden city. Our events in 1832, January 2nd, the first curling club in the United States opened. I know we're currently was invented the EU Scotland, Scotland. 

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00:21:18

I could have figured that January 6th, the new England anti-slavery society was organized in Boston, Massachusetts, February 9th, the city of Jacksonville, Florida received its town charter from the legislative council of the Florida territory. April 6th, the black Hawk war began May 9th classes at Lafayette. College began in Eastern Pennsylvania. Lafayette. I'm taking that source for the rain May 21st, the first democratic national convention was held in Baltimore, Maryland, June 16th. 

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00:22:00

The battle of Kellogg's Grove occurred in Illinois. Was this ever cereal? And didn't say, but I mean, that's the only thing that I can think of June 22nd. John Howe patented the pin manufacturing machine. P E N or P I N E I N. Okay. July 4th, John Neil delivered the first public lecture in the United States advocating for the rights of women votes for women's good, man. What movie? Huh? Votes for women. I don't know the soldiers and petty. I'm barely here. You should know that. Mary Poppins. 

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00:22:40

Oh, Mrs. Banks. Let's see. Where was I? Oh, sorry. Oh, July 10th. President Andrew Jackson vetoed legislation. That would recharter the second bank of the United States. July 13th. The source of the Mississippi river was discovered by American geographer, Henry Schoolcraft. That's a fun name. I liked that last name. It's a fun one. July 24th, Benjamin Bonneville. He had a love, a good alliteration like love a good, good alliteration led the first wagon train across the Rocky mountains by Wyoming's south pass, July 25th. 

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00:23:20

The first railroad accident occurred on the granite railway in Quincy, Massachusetts, and it killed one person July to August of that year. The collar up pandemic reach the Northeastern seaboard and it began in New York city cholera. Bad, bad news. We'll talk about it. More October 19th, the alpha Delta Phi fraternity was founded at Hamilton college in New York, November 14th. The first horse-drawn street car was debuted in New York city. It traveled from fourth avenue between prince and 14th street. And the fair was 12 cents. 

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00:24:03

I can afford that. Could you imagine just paying 14 cents 

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00:24:07

Uber 12, 12,012. Why don't I think 14? I don't know crazy. I said November 14th. So there we go. That's why November 24th, South Carolina passed the ordinance of nullification, which declared the tariffs of 1828 and 1832 unconstitutional and unenforceable in South Carolina. And it was the beginning of the nullification crisis, which started staging the civil war. That was the tariff that they called it. The tariff of abominations. That was what they were working on December 5th, president Andrew Jackson was reelected for a second term and he defeated Henry Clay, December 24th. 

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00:24:54

The first hospital for black people founded by whites was chartered in Savannah, Georgia, up in there curious that it was in Savannah, honestly, December 28th. 

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00:25:06

Well, because they segregated in the south in the north, they wouldn't have necessarily segregated. 

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00:25:12

Yeah. So Savannah was Frisbees. Fan was very interesting. December 28th, John C. Calhoun became the first vice president to resign due to his differences with president Jackson are undated events in 1832. The secret society, skull and bones was established at Yale university. We, that was the topic we're supposed to cover for our USBs. So you will get that eventually. One day. It's very interesting. They helped establish a lot of different things. There are some thoughts that maybe they have control over who becomes president. Anyway, it's a lot of conspiracy theory things, but there's a lot of interesting people who have been in skull and bones and some interesting things that have happened. 

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00:26:03

So we'll go into it. Eventually. Let's see the wills eye hospital in Philadelphia was funded. And John Neil published the haunted man, which is the first work of American fiction to use psychotherapy as a theme. Hmm. John Neil was the same one who advocated for the rights of women in that year as well. We like him. Our births in 1832, June 9th, Martha Waldron, James, not James James. She was an American minister, social reformer and columnist. She's the first woman ordained in the free church conference. 

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00:26:44

She's a Gemini, June 11th. This is the name Lucy Pettway Holcomb Pickens. Nice. Shh. We'll see. We'll see how she is. She was an American socialite in Tennessee and Texas and was known as quote, the queen of the Confederacy could be problematic. She was also the first lady of South Carolina at one point. And this is the reason that me and Leo will know her. And just because of our history here, she is the one who shaped the stereotype of a Southern Belle. 

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00:27:25

Oh. So could be problematic. But that is, that's where the whole Southern belt thing comes from is from her because she was the American socialite and Tennessee and Texas. And so she kind of like helped, you know, she, she push all that through August 20th and she was a Gemini as well, August 20th, Thaddeus, this, this is another name that he is. So Besky Constantine low. Wow. AKA professor T a C low. That's what he was. He was a self. 

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00:28:05

He was self-educated in chemistry, meteorology and aeronautics. Wow. He is known as the father of the military aerial reconnaissance in the United States. Sounds like a pretty smart guy. He was he's a Leo as well, September 25th, William LeBaron, Jenny. He was an American architect and engineer. We have also discussed him before because he is known for building the first sky scraper in 1884. And he is known as the father of the American skyscraper. We discussed this in our Chicago episode, the home insurance building in Chicago was the first skyscraper ever. 

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00:28:47

It does not exist anymore because of American progress. Thank you very much. But yes, he was the first one to create skyscrapers. He is a Libra, November 7th, Andrew Dickinson white. He was a historian diplomat and co-founder of Cornell university. It's a little bit of fun-ness there. He's Scorpio. I believe I didn't put it there. Pretty sure he's a Scorpio. Who knows? Alright, let's see November. Why did I put these backwards? These are out of order. Okay. We'll start with one. 

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00:29:28

That should be correct. November 20th, Louisa may Alcott was born. I love her. She's a novelist short story writer and poet. She is most well-known for writing the story little women and she is a Sagittarius. 

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00:29:42

That's one of my all time. Favorite 

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00:29:44

Books. Raise your hand. If he could have figured that out. Number 26, the doctor, man, I never loved it. No, there was something about it that bothered me, but you know how I am. I can see how that would bother me. Like I just don't give me a murder mystery. Anyways, November 26th, Dr. Mary Walker, it's only fitting that we end with her in the bursts for this year because of who she is. She has an abolitionist prohibitionist prisoner of war and surgeon. She is the only woman to ever receive a medal of honor. 

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00:30:28

She's a Sagittarius. See, now if little women had been about her, I'd have been on board, 

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00:30:34

But now Joe was pretty, she was pretty awesome. Chick 

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00:30:38

Sheila, there's something about little women that bothered me. And I don't know what it was. Probably just like the whole, like, I don't know. 

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00:30:45

It was interesting to see how different all four girls were, even though they were, I mean, they were all raised by the same mother. They were all for so different. 

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00:30:53

I think that has to do with birth, birth order 

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00:30:56

Birth order. Sure, sure. It does. But just, I don't know how, just how different they all four were and how they reacted to their dad the, in a way. And I know, 

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00:31:08

Yeah, it was, there's something about little women I never cared for. And I, and I, the thing is I had to read it like twice I had to for school. 

1  

00:31:19

See, I read it for funsies. 

0  

00:31:20

See, but it was never a book that I was like, oh, like, let me just pick this book up and read. So I would not have read it. Had I not had to read it, but even, but even there were books that I had to read that I really ended up enjoying and then flowers for, Algernon not one of them. If you knew then, you know, did you 

1  

00:31:43

Read, gone with the wind? 

0  

00:31:46

You know, I watched gone with one. I would not. I, you know, me as well would not have read, gone with wind. I barely watched gone with the wind. It's 

1  

00:31:57

Not a fan, 

0  

00:31:57

But it's gone with the wind. It's just Ugh. So annoying. This is where, this is where my Jody comes in. Like, this is where I become your sister because I can't, I can't with that nonsense, but yeah, flowers for Algernon that one got me that way. And I had to read flowers for Algernon more than 

1  

00:32:21

One. And that's I did not enjoy that one. Oh 

0  

00:32:25

Gosh. There's some books that I'm just like, yeah. Well, and then 

1  

00:32:29

Fahrenheit 4 51. 

0  

00:32:32

I did like Fahrenheit 4 59 as an allegory. I did 

1  

00:32:36

Not enjoy 

0  

00:32:37

That one. The great Gatsby I did. 

1  

00:32:39

I hated the 

0  

00:32:40

Great glove, the great gas. I think I liked the great Gatsby because it was very psychological 

1  

00:32:47

Well, and one reason, I think one reason I really didn't like it was, I had to read it and I was on a trip and I was having fun on the trip and that may have bled over to it. But I don't know. I really, I really didn't care. 

0  

00:32:58

It was a lot, it was one of those books that when they shouldn't have had us read it when we did, cause we were probably too young to understand what it, what was going on anyways, because I really enjoyed it because of the teacher that I had because she pulled a lot, like she pulled a lot of stuff out and was like, well, what do you think this means? And you really learned like how, like how much different things meant and things like that. But it was, it's a very interesting story. Flowers for Algernon there I'll never get over. I will ne and I hope my child never has to read that. Cause it, it ruined me 

1  

00:33:37

Of my submission. I never heard her read that. Oh, it was like some, we had choices for 

0  

00:33:43

Some, we had choices for some reading to 

1  

00:33:44

Us, started reading it and I didn't get there. The first chapter, the language was just too much for me. And I was like, Nope, can't do it. Can't do, 

0  

00:33:57

We had some books that were interesting that we had to read, but I do remember. I don't remember what I chose for most of my summer reading, but yeah, we had to, when I was in high school, I took an advanced history class and no one told me that there was going to be a reading. That's fine. I didn't set up. I had to read a book that's called, well, one, I had to read the communist manifesto. That was a whole thing in and of itself. That was not easy to read. And then I had to read this book called the jungle. Oh my gosh. If you ever have to read the jungle, I apologize. It is bad. And it is really bad, which funny enough kind of connects to like the time period that we are in history right now, because it's very much like immigrants coming to the United States and the jungle deals with the meat packing industry. 

0  

00:34:48

At that time, it is groves. Oh, it's like it, it was. And I know, I understand why we had to read it for history, but it is brutal. Like, I mean some of the descriptions of stuff and not just like the meat packing industry in itself, but like how some people would die. And it was just, I was a soft, I know I was a freshmen and I had to read that and I was like, oh no, that's not, this is not good, but I would never. Yeah. I'm sorry if anybody has to read the jungle, not a good one. Moving on to deaths. Yeah. Sorry. In 1832, November 14th, we have Charles Carroll. 

0  

00:35:31

He was the last surviving signer of the declaration of independence in different era. December 22nd, Ishmael Spicer died. He was a teacher and one of the first American composers. And he founded the first singing school at the courthouse in Baltimore, Maryland and onto our story this week, August 18th. Nope. August of 1832, a group of 57 Irish immigrants died or were murdered while working on a stretch of railway called Duffy's cut outside of pencil outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 

0  

00:36:15

And that is why our story this week is called the Duffy's cut murders. This time 

1  

00:36:21

Not sound very fun. And we ended the year with nobody dying and now bam was started 57 with 57. 

0  

00:36:29

So there's a bit there's well, we'll get into it. So this is another week where we aren't going to technically cover a specific city. We will cover a little bit more of an area. So Duffy's cut is a stretch of railway originally built for the Philadelphia and Columbia railroad in the late summer and fall of 1832. The name Duffy's cut comes from the railroad contractor. Phillip Duffy, the line later became part of the Pennsylvania railroad's main line, which went on to be the largest transportation enterprise and largest corporation in the world loop. Its budget was only second to the U S government. 

0  

00:37:12

The specific location of our history today takes place in east white land township, Pennsylvania located in Chester county, east white land township was founded in 1704 as only white Linde township and is now split into east and west kind of like Easter egg and Westech and the great Gatsby. Anyway, I always tie it back. The original settlers were Welsh and from Wales, the native Americans called the area, the dark valley because of the amount of trees in the area, the lap log house St. Peter's church in the great valley spring mill complex and white horse Tavern are all listed on the national register of historic places. 

0  

00:37:56

The Pennsylvania railroad consisted of the Philadelphia and Columbia railroad canals up the SESCO Honda and Juanita rivers. A cable roadway system called the Allegheny Portage railroad, a tunnel across the Allegheny mountains and canals down the CUNA mall and Allegheny rivers to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. The bulk of our episode today we'll deal with the case and the updates. Since the case date, there will be different theories. And at the end, we will discuss which one we think is more likely. Phillip Duffy was born in Ireland in 1783, just 15 years later, he witnessed the United Irishmen rebellion and fled with a few friends from Ireland to America with the hope of a new life. 

0  

00:38:48

Duffy decided to settle in Philadelphia county in Pennsylvania, he would travel for work on the railway and in 1813, Duffy applied for naturalization in order to be known as a us citizen. And he did eventually become one. By the time he was 30, Duffy worked his way up the ladder and went from railroad labor to a contractor who was responsible for hiring and supervising. The other laborers on public works projects for him for we'll get to him for the people who are outside of the U S or people who just don't know public works in the United States. They include roads, schools, reservoirs, which are carried out by the government for the betterment of the community, but they're also funded by the government. 

0  

00:39:35

Those are all public works. The first time Duffy's name is known to be listed as a contractor was on a railroad contract in February of 1829, where he is listed as a partner with his brother-in-law James Smith. The contract was to work on section 16 of the Philadelphia and Columbia railroad. Duffy was so successful in developing that section of the railway. They, he received his own contract in June of 1829 to continue work on tomorrow 60 of the rail line. So at this time all of the rail lines, they did it a mile. 

0  

00:40:15

The contract was given out a mile at a time. And so it was either given to you as a section, or it was the actual mile number that you were working on. So he was on section 16 and they gave him mile 60. So that was kind of how they did their contracts was based on the section of area. That makes sense. I mean, you have to be able to break it down somehow, right? So, oh, there we are. He leaned heavily on his Irish roots to get other Irish immigrants to work for him and the crew that he hard work on mile 60 was described as quote, a sturdy looking band of the sons of Aaron. 

0  

00:40:59

Now, for anyone who doesn't know outside, probably anyone outside of Ireland won't know Erin is another name for Ireland. So sons of Aaron is literally just men from Ireland. Yes. So the work on mile 60 was intense and Duffy had his crew finish it in record time. The efforts of the workers were called Herculean and their hard work helped Duffy make a name for himself as a hardworking contractor who was able to have work completed ahead of schedule just 11 months after his work on mile 60 Duffy was given a contract for what later became known as the most expensive, the most difficult and most dangerous mile of railroad on the entire railway line. 

0  

00:41:53

This is setting us up for something. This is the mile that became known as Duffy's cut. Duffy's cut is actually mile 59 on the railway and the contract for it was presented on May 18th, 1831. It had to be completed in 11 months and it had to be completed by April 1st, 1832, spoiler. This did not happen. The goal of the contract involved three steps, which included filling the valley, creating a culvert for the stream and breaking down the existing hillside. While Duffy was known as someone who exceeded expectations and the deadline department, this was not one of those projects due to how difficult the terrain was to work on. 

0  

00:42:37

There was an original Duffy's cut crew that wasn't able to complete the work due to how hard it was to break apart. The limestone on mile 59, Duffy was so far behind on the contract that he needed to hire an entirely new crew to finish the contract out. And hopefully the delay wouldn't impact his reputation too much. So I don't understand why you had to hire a new current cause they all left like, yeah, they were like, we're done. We've been trying to blast out limestone by hand for months now. And we can't, we're done. They would have gotten me for about 30 seconds. I would've looked at it and like hit it with a pickax and been like, Hmm, I'm out. 

0  

00:43:22

The things, things spun new things. So the work was so grueling in fact that when railroad contractors approached, you know, I hate this word, but slave owners with the opportunity to have their opportunity and their slaves, their opportunity for their slaves to work on the railways, the quote owners would not allow them to participate in it. It was more likely that they were just afraid they wouldn't get their slaves back due to the work, not for sympathy of the slaves of how hard the work actually was. 

0  

00:44:06

But the work was so difficult. Like even slave owners were like, no, yeah, even regardless of how much the government was going to pay them because the government was going to pay them like a lot of money for you. And they were like, no, we discussed it in our Halligan daily case. If you want to go back to episode seven, that Irish Catholics were not highly thought of at this. And in reference to their status in society, they were considered the lowest of the low and they would do anything that they could to get work. They were also blamed for everything as we saw in that case. This is important to note because this applied to the way, the real way crews operated Catholics were given the heavy labor positions of breaking up stone and manually hauling dirt in and out while Protestants were the ones simply finishing off the tracks, the work that the Protestants were assigned didn't result in a high death rate. 

0  

00:45:06

As far as the men that Duffy hired, they were considered expendable. And that sentiment came directly from Duffy, who was an Irish immigrant himself and Catholic. That makes it a little rule worse in June. Yeah. It's, it's, it's bad. In June of 1832, a group of Irish immigrants, disembarked from the ship they traveled on for almost three months to get to the United States before everyone. This, I found very interesting given the state of the world that we live in right now. So weird how history repeats itself. And I have a feeling that this is one thing that will be coming back very soon again, based on the state of the world we live in before everyone arrived in Philadelphia, the ship had to stop at the first quarantine hospital in the country called law's aredo. 

0  

00:46:02

They had to make sure that no one showed symptoms of cholera on the ship before they would allow the ship to continue to port. I don't feel like we're far off from the next you saw now. They don't want people to get on cruise ships period. So don't think we're far off from that, honestly, but Lazaretto was one of the first quarantine hospitals in the country period. So everyone was cleared and the passengers were granted passage into the United States. Just a side note here. Many people believed that Irish immigrants were to blame for the spread of cholera in the United States. 

0  

00:46:42

Of course they did, but the illness actually came into the United States from Canada, down the Hudson river to New York, and then onto Pennsylvania, Canadians always want to act like they're so nice. A cholera anyways, Sam cholera. What's his name? Emeril. Pam cholera. Never know when it's going to hit ya. And there were 57 men and two women that arrived in Philadelphia, hoping to be hired, to start a new life. 

0  

00:47:23

Phillip Duffy was there to welcome them. And he hired a large group of Irish immigrants near the Washington avenue, immigration station, immigration station sounds funny, get right. It does rhyme, which is also weird, which reminds me of, oh my gosh, school house, rock injunction. Junction was working out multiplication in music. Anyways, the stupid stuff. My brain remembers guys and just being that's what's funny is I think that's the one that everyone remembers, but mine is the multiplication one, cause I was really bad at multiplication. 

0  

00:48:05

And my mom may or may not have made me watch schoolhouse rock a lot of times for my preschoolers all the time. I would just like to say to my past math teachers, I now have a calculator in my pocket. Thank you very much. You always said that I wouldn't liars. They, they did not know the feature anyways. So less than eight weeks after the group was hired, all of the workers were dead and buried in the freshly disturbed earth near the railroad. How long? Less than eight weeks later. But what happened to them? There are rumors, but there are rumors as to what occurred. 

0  

00:48:50

And the thoughts ranged from a cholera outbreak to a mass murder and burial, just a few yards away from the work site. The workers made themselves a makeshift shanty. And it said that an August of 1832 cholera had made its way to the Shanti. Colorado was sneaky and how it was transmitted and how it was passed between towns. But at this time, no one knew how it was being transmitted. And unfortunately for them it came from contaminated drinking water. Yep. Yep. Yep. At this time, cholera was labeled as a global pandemic as in what we are living in now. 

0  

00:49:30

Thanks. COVID and I do not have COVID BT dubs have already had it and I already have my vaccine. So don't covet anyways. It caused uncontrollable vomiting in digestive distress. Didn't go on to go into exactly what all that meant. So we're just leaving it there. The workers realized what was going on and some tried to fleet in nearby forums, but they were turned away due to the fear of cholera for nuns from the sisters of charity in Philadelphia, who were also nurses traveled out to the Shanti to try and help the nuns were shamed for their work. 

0  

00:50:14

And it wasn't just the fear of contamination that caused the backlash, but also the anti-Catholic sentiment popular at the time, the nuns were forced to walk back the 30 miles to the convent from the shanty in the summer heat because no one would help them get back. That's me. By the end of August of 1832, everyone was dead. The newspapers tried downplay how bad everything actually was and they wouldn't report on the specific number of workers that were found dead. In fact, the national Gazette and literary register published an article, which stated that quote, it is reported that several cases have occurred lower down the great valley among the laborers on the Pennsylvania railroad. 

0  

00:51:01

And that's all they said several, just several and just cases, not deaths. 

1  

00:51:07

Yeah. 

0  

00:51:10

So one rumor is that a vigilante group made up of individuals connected to the east white land horse company were to blame. There is some weight behind this one because the east white land horse company was owned by the Pratt family, not Chris Pratt. He's now at Kennedy, which is very weird to say she knew that 

1  

00:51:37

That's just by marriage and by 

0  

00:51:39

Marriage. Cause the sports sneakers are Kennedy's by marriage because Maria Shriver's committees, 

1  

00:51:46

Their divorce is final. By the way, I could have 

0  

00:51:47

Been a Kennedy poop. 

1  

00:51:50

Arnold and Maria it's final. Well, 

0  

00:51:54

He's still Babylon because it's daughter Catherine. 

1  

00:51:57

Hm. Well, yeah, I'm just saying that was in the knees anyway. Continue 

0  

00:52:03

Only in America. Can Donald Trump become the president and Arnold Schwartzenegger it can be the governor of California anyway. Wasn't is it Jerry Springer was like the mayor of, 

1  

00:52:18

He was the mayor of like Chicago, 

0  

00:52:20

Chicago or something. Yeah. So weird. Anyways, good show. Jerry Springer. Where was I? There we are. The Pratt family also owned mile 59. That was Duffy's cut that the crew was working on. The story goes that the crew was surrounded and murdered by gunshots and acts blows to the head. Then Duffy made sure that the workers were thrown into a mass grave and he tried to keep the story quiet in the press because he was afraid it would deter other Irish immigrants from working with him. 

1  

00:52:56

Well, I mean, maybe 

0  

00:52:59

This, this would cause the project to fall further behind and he would possibly lose future contract jobs as well. He quickly and quietly hired another crew. The third crew, for those who are counting to come in and finish mile 59. As I said before, the current sentiment was that immigrants were bringing in cholera and this group of misguided vigilantes thought that were going to try and stop it. Dr. William Watson, a history professor at an eye guys, you know, sometimes your brain will look at something and it doesn't matter how many times it looks at it. It still doesn't look right. 

0  

00:53:39

And you still don't think you can say it, right? That's the name of this college? Not all of that, because that'd be a very long name for a college Immaculata, which does not sound right because it's in the U S anyway, that university, he was there and he was a director of the Duffy's cut project. He stated that quote, people would have resented these Irish guys, underbidding, local labor. They were exploited to death building the infrastructure of America, no one advert advocated for them. They were only 119 people in east white land. 

0  

00:54:21

At the time, none of them were Catholic. All Duffy wanted to do was get the mile done. He was Catholic himself. He was selling out his own countrymen. The bottom line was the dollar and nothing else building the railroad was the biggest industrial endeavor in Pennsylvania at the time. And they are literally buried in it. The second rumor that we have to go off of is that everyone simply died of cholera and that Duffy buried them before anyone knew of what happened in order to save his reputation. But we'll see sometimes there are stories that don't ever have an end, and we rarely have anything from this time that can tie back to the events in recent years. 

0  

00:55:11

But the man I mentioned just a bit ago, Dr. William bill Watson, and we'll call him bill for a lot of the rest of the time. A lot of the things that I wrote about him called him, bill is the reason that we have found out so much more information than previously attained about Duffy's cut. It all started on a night in September of 2000 when Watson and his friend. And I put not sure lock disappointing. I kind of had that, that same thought anyways, his friend was name was Tom Conner, not at all Sherlock, but it's fine. Or Benedict Cumberbatch, but that's neither here nor there. They were sitting in Watson's office on the university campus. 

0  

00:55:55

The men were looking out the window and noticed lights floating near the facility. New notice lights floating near the faculty center. Watson said the lights were quote shimmery, like neon in the figure of three thin men. Then as fast as they appeared, they were gone, time passed. And he started to forget about the fakers. Then two years later, Watson was visiting brother Frank, and the two started reminiscing on the stories, their grandfather, Joseph F again, <em></em> sure had told them growing up. 

0  

00:56:37

Sure. That's what we're going with. Frank was also a historian, his brother. So Bill's brother Frank was also a historian and he was a Lutheran minister during the conversation. The stories about the ghosts of Duffy's cut or brought up and the memories of the night, two years earlier, came back to bill many people near the cut, dismiss the stories of ghosts as folklore. But the facts that the Watson brothers knew added more credibility than anyone knew their grandfather. Joseph was a secretary to Martin Clement who just happened to be the 11th president of the Pennsylvania railroad in 1909. 

0  

00:57:22

Clement heard the story about Duffy's cut. And he wanted to find out what really happened and why there wasn't any information with the railroad. Yeah, let's, let's, let's get a little bit of something and people died here, right? So he decided to start a file with all of the conclusive information he could find and any evidence that could lead to answers in this file. He had two statements from railroad employee, Julian Saxy and correspondence between railroad employees. He held onto this file and continued adding to it until his death in 1968. That was when this file went to the Watson brother's grandfather. 

0  

00:58:03

And in 1977, when their grandfather died, the file was passed on to Frank. The brothers started taking apart the file and trying to put everything in chronological order and started to think there was more to this ghost story than just their grandfather trying to scare them. The railroad employee, Julian Saxy said in his statement, quote, I saw with my own eyes, the ghost of the Irishman who died of cholera a month ago, dancing around the big trench, where they were buried, dancing. Yeah. They looked as if they were kind of green and blue fire. Once bill read this, he called his friend that saw the lights with him years before and said that he now knew what they saw that night. 

0  

00:58:46

Immediately. They put a team together of historians and volunteers to go through all of the state and local archives to find anything they could on. Duffy's cut the more information they found, the more stories weren't lining up with one another. In August of 2004, the team had grown to include a geophysicist, a deputy coroner, an archeologist, and a forensic dentist. They set off to Duffy's cut and started digging. The locals were less than pleased with the disruption. And bill said that quote, people told we were chasing ghosts and that we would never find the bodies. Oh, finally, in November of 2005, they found a piece of a clay pipe. 

0  

00:59:30

And according to the archeologists in the group, it is quote, the oldest example of Irish nationalism found in north America. Cool. But it would be another four years of digging before they would find any thing else. In March of 2009, in a Grove of trees, they found skull fragments, a tibia, and more than 80 other human bones. What they found was more concerning than they had anticipated. Sure. They expected to see some decomposition of the remains because it had been almost 200 years, but when one of the skulls found had blunt force trauma, their suspicions were all, but confirmed six more sets of skeletal remains were found and a seventh was located under a Poplar tree, but they were not able to obtain it immediately. 

0  

01:00:25

This is actually super freaking goal in July of 2011, the tree fell. And finally, they could start excavation on the seventh body, but why did they have to wait? The bone had fused with the tree roots. Okay. That's cool. And the tree had fed off of the human remains over the years. The tree had to naturally die in order to avoid any damage to the skeleton. Which just sounds so cool to me. Like that's really cool. It's just weird. How like in, and then the timing of it, Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic park where he's at life finds a way. 

0  

01:01:11

That's what that always reminds me of that. It's like life finds a way. Love Jeff Goldbloom anyways, that's fine. I love Jurassic park anyways. So you also get to see Jurassic park, but when you go to universal studios, it's a lot of fun. So yes, three of the seven sets of bones showed significant signs of blunt force trauma. Watson believes that some of the Irish workers at Duffy's cut might have been buried alive. Yeah. Which was, and they might've done that during the stage of color. 

0  

01:01:52

That's known as cold cholera at this point in the diseases lethal PR progress, it's possible to appear dead, even though the individual is still alive. I know the forensic dentist started looking at one of the skeletons and noticed a major dental anomaly that only occurs in one in 100,000 people due to a series of excellent record-keeping honestly don't know who kept these records, but they did a fantastic job. They were able to positively identify the remains as 18 year old. 

0  

01:02:34

John ready. Another set of remains was also given her identity as Catherine Burns, six of the bodies were ceremoniously laid to us at west Laurel cemetery. And that is actually in Pennsylvania. There's a reason that I say that. And that was done in March of 2012, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer, there were over 500 people in attendance amongst the crowd was Kevin Connie, the deputy chief of mission at the Irish embassy in Washington, DC economy stated that the Berry, the burial was important, quote for the millions of Irish people who have made this leap over the centuries in March of 2013 ruddy, who was one of the ones that was identified was given a ceremonial burial at the church of the holy family. 

0  

01:03:31

And I am probably not going to say this. Right. And I apologize the church of the Royal family in our, our Darra in, I think it's Donegal. Maybe I hope I'm sorry in Ireland, but they got his, his remains. They sent them back to Ireland for him to be interred in Ireland. Oh cool. Yes. Finally they find his family. I don't know. I couldn't find too much further on it. I believe they might have found some descendants. That'd be pretty cool. Right. So finally, seven of the immigrants from the John stamp, which was the ship that came across were put to rest, but the search for the others continued from a 2020 article. 

0  

01:04:20

It has been confirmed that I total of 19 bodies have been found and identified in more recent years, the team speculates that the other remains are closer to the railroad tracks and that land belongs to Amtrak because Amtrak now owns that railway. They would need extensive permission to dig that area. And if granted, if an Irish contractor by the name of Joe devoid will be handling the excavation, want to just put it's a bit ironic that an Irish contractor will be excavating bodies buried by an Irish contractor. 

0  

01:05:00

I mean, yeah, but the tale of Duffy's cut is very similar to the average 19th century Irish immigrant. And the full story is yet to be uncovered historian and late team member. He's now since passed on John at once said quote, throughout history, this was just like, Hmm. This one got me. Cause it's very true. And in a lot of stories that we've discussed, this has also been very true. And this was just one of those comments that hit like a little bit too close. He is a late team member of the crew that, that was exhuming the bodies. 

0  

01:05:45

He said throughout history, human lives have different values at different places and at different times, which is just a little bit of, of up from that. A fun story that I did find was from 2018 about Doyle's town brewery. They came out with their own brew called Duffy's cut in, which has just found really funny. And it was to honor those long ago, Irish immigrants that died there, the brewery gave a percentage of every case of Irish style, red ale Duffy's cut. It sells to help fund the dig at Duffy's cut for the excavation bodies. 

0  

01:06:28

So it was fun. That's very cool. For any future updates, you can go to Duffy's cut project.com and they also accept donations for further excavation. If you would like to go there and donate and bill Watson, Dr. Bill Watson, he's still one of the main people that's helping fund all of that and helping, you know, find all these people. And I put here that I only think that it's fitting to put here the names of the identified workers. So they are Catherine Burns, who was the only female as of right now that I could find that we could identify, 

1  

01:07:01

But there were only two. Right. Didn't you say there were only two 

0  

01:07:05

To the point of that since then. They've now identified 19. So, 

1  

01:07:11

No, I mean, I thought on, on the, that were on the ship, there were only two on the ship. Oh, okay. 

0  

01:07:20

So Catherine Burns. Then we have George Doherty. Who's 28, John Roddy, who is 18 and these are all Irish names. So I may or may not get them right. William . He was 20 William Daveen. He was 21 Daniel Mackay hill 25, Bernie McGarrity, 20 David, pat chill, 20 Barnard, Mick Mickey, Mickey Delaney. Yep. 23, George Quigley, 22, John McClone 23, John McLennan, 24, James Devaney, 26, Patrick Maconomy 20 and last but not least Samuel Forbes, 23. 

0  

01:08:06

They were all 

1  

01:08:07

So young. 

0  

01:08:09

So yeah, the oldest was 28. That's been identified so far. They were 

1  

01:08:15

All so young. 

0  

01:08:17

So, and you can go on the Duffy's cut project.com. You can go on their website and they do have like the list. And it does say specifically where they're from, like, like the parts of Ireland they were from, it breaks it down 

1  

01:08:30

So young. I mean, and they were coming here to 

0  

01:08:33

Start to find a better life. And then when they came here, they found out that it was way worse than what they were dealing with back at home, which I believe was like the Irish kind of revolution at that time. Kind of almost like a civil war. Yeah. And so I was very disheartening to see. And I mean, and they're still, they're still having a hard time finding a lot of the bodies. They know that they're there, but they're having a lot of hard time digging up a lot of different areas of them. So we'll never really know exactly what happened at Duffy's cut. I think that it's a mixture of all of it. I think that possibly some were murdered. I think that what could have happened is that I think that there were a lot of people who did die. 

0  

01:09:18

I think that the cold collar does have something to do with it as well that they thought that some people were dead. And then I also think that there were a group who were not dead yet and they went ahead and figured kind of like everyone's tainted already. So we're just gonna start fresh and be done. I think that's what happened. There's no explanation for that many people to be dead at one time. Like there's no, they didn't all just die of cholera because did they all bury themselves? Yeah. Like, yeah, that doesn't make sense to me. So, and if they did all die of cholera, then that would be the story. It would be very just, yeah. 

1  

01:10:01

Why not record that? Right. Why not say that 

0  

01:10:04

Very odd story, but very interesting when I didn't, I didn't know about, and nobody really knows what happened at Duffy's cut. So 

1  

01:10:14

He said on one, there was blunt force trauma. So I mean, 

0  

01:10:19

So there's been some debate as to whether, and that was one thing that I did see, there's been some debate as to whether it was blunt force trauma or whether the decomposition over time showed that, however, the original coroner who reviewed everything said that you cannot account for bullet holes as decomposition. So he did say that there was some, you know, even though the bodies were not well-preserved cause they were not, you know, they were just literally thrown into a mass grave. He did say that it was highly unlikely that all of the damage came from decomposition alone. So that is that in. 

0  

01:11:03

Yeah. It's very interesting. There is a book on it about Duffy's cut that Dr. Bill Watson wrote. So if anybody wants to go find that you can, you can also, like I said, go to the website, Duffy's cut project.com. It's still, it's still going. They still have stuff. I think it might be kind of dwindling at this point. So if anybody, you would like to go and to show your support for it, if nothing else, I'm sure Dr. Watson would appreciate it. He's put a lot of time and effort into this. And, and honestly, into something that a lot of people thought was, was stupid. They thought this is not, they're not truly, the town told them, you will, you are chasing ghosts. You will never find bodies. And they found bodies. 

1  

01:11:45

Why would they not? I mean, it's 

0  

01:11:48

One of those things that through time, people just thought it's like a old wives tale. Yeah. Like it's not true. It's just, this is just something that people say and that's true. Hmm. So it's just very interesting. And also disheartening because this, this also goes back to, and while the plight is nowhere near the same, but it still goes back to her Patty cannon episode where like you have so much hate towards a specific group of people. And not only that, he was an Irish Catholic immigrant and he didn't care about them and he still grouped them as like, oh, those hour-ish Catholic. 

0  

01:12:28

Oh, I'm sorry, sir. You mean yourself? 

1  

01:12:31

Like 

0  

01:12:32

Stuff like that just irritates me so bad because it's just like the, and just like that, the guy who had also helped on the excavation where he said like throughout history, human lives have had different values at different times and at different places. And that's just so unfortunate. 

1  

01:12:50

Like it's, it's not unfortunate. It's just wrong. 

0  

01:12:53

It is, it's so wrong and sad. 

1  

01:12:56

It makes me angry. And I mean, it takes a lot to make me angry. I'm a, I'm a pretty happy jovial, you know, get along with everybody kind of person. But one thing that makes me so angry is just ignorance and just not liking somebody without even knowing them, not liking somebody, just because of, you know, the color of their skin or how they choose to live or how they choose to worship or where they're from something that they can't even control. They can't control where they were 

0  

01:13:34

Their socioeconomic status. I mean, that's, what's so especially when it comes to kids like kids can't control that and that, that always just killed it, which I've talked about it before. And like my past and stuff that happened with me, like, I can't control anything that happened in my life. I can't control decisions that my father made. I can't control those things, but I'm held responsible for that. Like I'm a child. Like I, stuff like that. It's never made sense to me. And even, you know, while this wasn't a specific like race issue, as far as color, it was an issue as far as you one you're different than us because yeah, just, 

1  

01:14:18

Just being different, just your different 

0  

01:14:20

Dear Catholic of all. It's like, okay, you're, that's what you're going to pick at. Okay. They're Catholic. All right. They speak a little funny. I get that. But like, I mean, they're Irish. I get your, they're not British, so they don't speak just like you do. But I mean, just, 

1  

01:14:39

I mean, if that's the case, then I wouldn't have married. My husband y'all my husband speaks. Oh, y'all think I sound country 

0  

01:14:46

Michael. I would never say these things about you. 

1  

01:14:48

She said them in worse, but I mean, yeah. I love my husband. And he was made for me, bless his heart. 

0  

01:14:57

He's from the outskirts that 

1  

01:14:59

He, he is more, he speaks more country than not do he, and, and it's fun. I love it. I think it's precious. But I mean, you know, just because he speaks differently than me doesn't mean that I don't like him. You know what I mean? 

0  

01:15:17

And then you get the one from the outskirts town on the country and I get the one that's north Atlanta. So 

1  

01:15:28

That does, it does make me angry that people are so prejudice about stuff like that. It just, it just, it's very aggravating. I mean, first impressions are a real thing. Absolutely. But I mean, take the time to try to connect with somebody, some fun 

0  

01:15:46

Commonality. I mean, everybody has something that they can, I mean, truly, truly, truly. I, I am not. We discussed this a number of times. I am not a social person. I don't like to be social with other people. I'm sure this says more about me than it does anything else, but I, I don't, I truly, I feel very awkward in social situations sometimes if I don't like, I don't, I don't like going to someone's house that I've never been to before, because I don't know where to park. Like that is a genuine concern of mine. It's like, that concerns me. Like it bothers me to go somewhere that I don't know where I'm going and I will obsess over parking. 

0  

01:16:28

Like, it's the weirdest thing. Like, because in my mind, it's like, you just go and you park, like, it's not hard. You just go. But it gives me anxiety, like stuff like that. And, but guys, like, if I can find something in common with people, like you can find something in common with people. I mean, it just is what it is and it, and if you truly can't, then you know what? You don't have to talk to that person. Yes. You just have to be to move 

1  

01:16:52

Forward. The effort, 

0  

01:16:54

Like that's fine. Life moves on people. Yes. 

1  

01:16:57

Just, just be kind, just be kind to 

0  

01:17:00

Be kind and don't murder. 

1  

01:17:05

There you go. 

0  

01:17:07

So if you would like any tips on how to be kind, you might not find them at our website, but you might, who knows. We, you can go there and find any an all, oh, in UC information you are looking for. It is one nation under crime.com. We are one nation under crime on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and at OEC pod on Twitter. If you love our podcast, as much as we do. And we know you do go leave us a five-star review on apple podcast, go to Patrion and become a patient on subscriber. You will start to get USBs episodes this month, guys. So go for it. You can be like Ryan, you can be a cool kid and you can increase your Patrion donation. Or you can start a Patrion donation there. 

0  

01:17:46

Ryan has some goodies coming in the mail to him, as soon as I put them in the mail. And as soon as they get, as soon as they get put in the mail. And so you can be a cool kid like that as well. If not, you're still a cool kid at heart, maybe cooler with yeah. You'll be able to cool your attitude. You'll be a part of the cool kids club. That's right. But you know, so thank you for listening to us this week. Thank you for listening to my sick ramblings, like legit sick and dealing with my voice. Cause I'm sure it sounds weird this week, but I greatly appreciated. 

0  

01:18:28

We will see you here. Same time, different crime next week. And remember that there isn't always Liberty and justice for all, especially if you're Catholic in the 1830s. Goodbye. Bye.